What am I doing wrong? (tri=x and d-76)

[MelanieC]

I use Tri-X and D-76 quite often and don't feel that I get excessive grain. This was on Tri-X and developed in D-76 1:1 (I like the results better with 1:1, I feel like there is less grain -- maybe I am seeing things?) and not much post-processing though I did use a quadtone.

(let's hope PBase cooperates and lets me link that image)

If I remember correctly I fix for five minutes.

 

[Sputty]

Thanks Kaiyen. I'l try that.

Melanie, great picture! Hopefully I'll get my tri-x in d-76 looking so good, eventually.

Thanks to everyone who gave feedback. I'll try experimenting some more tonight and see what I can do.

Best,
Jonathon

 

[kaiyen]

Melanie,
1+1 vs...what other dilution? Technically 1+0 will give you the least grain.

allan

 

[Ronald M]

Assuming the dark down the center is not from under fixing, look at the clear areas between frames, the problem is insufficient agitation. The more gentle you try to be, the more the developer gets replenished at the edges and not in the center. Then the edges get more dense and print light.

Agitation is a process you want to go to completion, like fixing, at the end of each agitation cycle. You can not overagitate (over replace spent developer} the edges. You can only under replenish in the center from lack of agitation.

Do 5 inversions ecch 30 sec and twist when putting the tank down. Or do 5 once per minute and twist. your choice.

Use no more developer than it takes to cover the reel or you inhibit liquid movement. 8 oz stainless steel 300cc Paterson plastic.

 

[Sputty]

Makes good sense, Ronald. I'll pay more attention to how I agitate. Should I be agitating frequently during the fixer bath, then, as well?

 

[kaiyen]

I agitate continuously during fixing. No reason not to. You want to expose as much fixer to the film as possible.

allan

 

[40oz]

since the time stated indicates you are using straight D-76, try diluting 1:1, meaning half D-76, half water. The times get longer (9:45 for 400 speed), but I like the results better, personally.

FWIW, I don't think there is anything terribly wrong with your grain, but the fading along the one edge doesn't look right. I tend to use 400ml with one roll, or 650ml with two in my developing can. (It says it only requires 350ml for one roll, but the math is easier for 400ml ) I'm not sure the fade on the top edge of your negatives is from not enough developer, however. Maybe from the rinse - left-over fixer on the film?

As far as agitation, I've found that it has a much smaller effect that you'd think from people's comments. I started out doing it once every minute, then read Kodak's documents more closely and found I should be doing it every 30 secs. Since I started following Kodak's recomendation, I've not really seen any difference. Just make sure you tap the tank on the table after agitating to shake off bubbles that might form on the film.

As for fixing, I don't know what you are using for fix, but I've never found I needed over five minutes in fresh fixer. Even after several rolls, a clip test has always cleared in under two minutes for me, so I can't see any reason to fix for more than five minutes. I agitate the fixer the same as the developer, seems silly to stand there for five minutes juggling a tank if I don't need to.

I don't see a lack of detail in your scans. They look exposed properly, and the grain is "normal" IMHO. The fading and markings along the edge are not normal, however. I'd look at how you are rinsing the film, and maybe your reels. Then try another roll.

 

[kaiyen]

I only discovered an issue with agitation time and technique when I went to MF in a SS tank. I needed 10 seconds to get enough movement and flow breakup, so I switched. I was getting uneven development with 5s every 30. So I standardized on that. The key thing is to stay consistent.

allan

 

[MelanieC]

Melanie,
1+1 vs...what other dilution? Technically 1+0 will give you the least grain.

Now I'm wondering if I'm doing things wrong... I was under the impression that 1:1 was basically half strength (i.e., follow the directions on the package to make one liter and then add one liter of water).

 

[Sputty]

I put a test roll through today, and tried developing again tonight.

This time I developed for 8 1/2 minutes at 21 degrees, agitating as recommended for five seconds on the minute, rinse, fixed for 4 minutes, agitating continuously, and then rinsed using the Ilford method.

Results are much better:

Thanks everybody for your help on this. I was ready to give up after a few failed attempts, but it looks like I've found a procedure that works well.

Best,
Jonathon

 

[kaiyen]

Now I'm wondering if I'm doing things wrong... I was under the impression that 1:1 was basically half strength (i.e., follow the directions on the package to make one liter and then add one liter of water).

Melanie,
Well, first, we could be having a terminology issue. You said 1:1, I said 1+1. I always use the "+" to avoid confusion. And I do mean 1 part D76 plus 1 part water. Don't think of it as "strength," though.

D76 stock, or 1+0, has the maximum amount of sulfite in it. Sulfite dissolves the edges of grain. This gives you the finest grain but at the expense of sharpness.

D76 1+3 is diluted enough that the sulfite concentration is so low that you essentially have an acutance, or high-definition developer. Grain dissolution is low, sharpness and grain are high.

D76 1+1 is obviously in the middle, and is recommended as a great standard developer because it's a great compromise.

So when you said 1:1 I was translating that as 1+1. When you said you felt you got less grain at 1:1, I was thinking you meant a diluation of 1+1, not the stock. Finest grain would be at stock, or 1+0 in my language.

allan

 

[40oz]

I put a test roll through today, and tried developing again tonight.

This time I developed for 8 1/2 minutes at 21 degrees, agitating as recommended for five seconds on the minute, rinse, fixed for 4 minutes, agitating continuously, and then rinsed using the Ilford method.

Results are much better:



Thanks everybody for your help on this. I was ready to give up after a few failed attempts, but it looks like I've found a procedure that works well.

Best,
Jonathon

Yeah, that looks pretty good

 

[rich815]

Now I'm wondering if I'm doing things wrong... I was under the impression that 1:1 was basically half strength (i.e., follow the directions on the package to make one liter and then add one liter of water).

Yes, you're correct.

Nice shot Melanie. Looks much smoother than most Tri-X I see, almost like XP2 but with a bit more bite.