What black paint for Leica repaint?

[abenner]

So I think I'm going to venture into a Leica repaint project, turning a chrome M2 black. I know I shouldn't and all that. I've done the research. I've got the right tools. I can disassemble the parts. I'm going to have the chrome and nickel removed by electrolysis (the right way, and not by me). So all I really have to do is paint the brass and assemble the bits back together roughly the way they came off.

Anyway, what I'm looking for is specific suggestions regarding what paint I should use. I'm looking for a gloss black look, but not super glossy. Basically like a Shintaro. I want it to patina and brass. A bake-on enamel would seem right. I'm looking for specifics as in brand, specific color, and even where to buy would be great. Anyone got ideas?

 

[colyn]

You'll need automotive grade etching primer and paint.

If you don't know how to properly mix the paint and additives you should let a trained auto painter do the job.

 

[aizan]

i thought about this when i had an m2. i figured i should test several paints on thick brass stock.

 

[abenner]

I don't think it needs a primer. If I'm not mistaken, black paint Leicas are just paint on brass, no? That's how they brass. Any of Shintaro's friends hanging around here?

 

[terrafirmanada]

I used automotive primer and paint when I did it and it did brass. I tried using my paint sticks for the engravings prior to painting. Then I scratched out the lettering after painting, and then baked all the pieces. I then re-paintsticked the engravings. This worked ok, but I did have some flaking of the black paint when cleaning out the engravings. I was happy enough with the final result.

 

[Xmas]

Buy an user early M4-2.

Noel

 

[Rik]

i'm in the process of a same project, also a M2. Apart from some internal fixes (camera was jammed..) and some personal modifications, i'm also going to paint it. I will use automotive primer and paint, from spraycans.
From other people, the main advice for the paint job is 'be patient'. Use thin layers and let every layer dry thoroughly before moving on. Patience seems to be key here. I'll post more and pictures when i'm done

 

[edodo]

I have talk with Peter at CRR Luton on the phone, and we discussed the possibility that I do repaint my M4 myself. He strongly suggested me to buy a M4-2 or a M4-p black in order to fullfil my envy to shoot a black leica, but then when I told him that I didn't want a perfect paint job he lead me to automotive paints with the warning that after two months it will severly chip off, but not the cool way like those brassed leica, but chips of paint will fall off.

Then I ask him his personnal procedure and why it cost so much (600 euros for paint job only) He explained me that at some point on the camera there are very few space between mechanical space such as between the rewind lever and the rewind knob, and that black paint is thicker than chrome, so the brass must be shimmed in order to remain perfectly matched with the black paint.

Thats why I won't paint my M4...

 

[abenner]

With regards to the option of just buying a user M4-2 or other, the simple facts are that 1) they're different cameras, in many ways, and 2) black chrome is not black paint.

As far as Luton's comments, that sounds odd. Not that it doesn't make sense, but I've read of several Leica repaint projects and never heard of people shimming brass, and I've not heard people having problems with stuff fitting too tight afterwards. Akira, can you chime in on this? Of course, your hammertone paint was only on the top plate and not the knobs, but do you think you'd have run into problems with fitment by painting all components?

I did contact Luton about a repaint, and I'm just not excited about $600+ ($850 with CLA) and giving up the camera for 4+ months. I tried to contact Shintaro, but no replies. Tom A says that Shintaro is still painting, but he's a bit behind and of course he's a photographer first and a painter second. People speak of very lengthy wait times if you do get your camera to him. Even though he can do the whole job in a few hours. (Somebody watched him do one start to finish and posted about it.)

terrafirmanada - Got pics? I'd love to see.

By the way Akira, after we spoke about my M3, I've decided to try an M2 instead. Then I don't have that problem with that frame counter window.

 

[colyn]

I don't think it needs a primer. If I'm not mistaken, black paint Leicas are just paint on brass, no?

You need to prepare the metal surface otherwise the paint will flake off. Etching primer gives the final paint a surface it can bond to without flaking as will be the case with paint sprayed directly to the metal surface.

 

[Xmas]

There are problems with tolerances even with a M2, my M2 needs (needed) a thicker washer than standard under the lever, after a rebuild using black chrome bits.

CRR does a good job, a M4-2 is the easy way to go, alternates black M3, or CRR repaint,... etc.

Noel
P.S. the origional black paint dissappears, wear, chips, etc....
P.P.S. or buy Kim's black M3 repaint in classifieds, kim wont mind me advertising.

 

[colyn]

I'm pretty sure that automotive grade paint will fill the engravings and script.

Some early M3's serial numbers are not that deep.

One coat of spray paint will pretty much fill the crevases.

Good luck,

Akira

If done properly it won't. That's why I say let someone who is experienced do the job. I've seen too many botched jobs done by those who think they know how.

 

[abenner]

So are factory black paint Leica bodies paint on brass or are they primed?

 

[colyn]

So are factory black paint Leica bodies paint on brass or are they primed?

If you look closely at a black paint Leica camera or other brand that has brassing you will see under areas of chipping a dark gray to black under coat. That is the primer.

All professional paint jobs including cameras have the parts primered first.

To properly paint camera parts you have to carefully clean all parts with acetone then spray a very light coat of etching primer. Allow it to dry then carefully smooth it with emory paper. Next you spray a very light tack coat with the final color. Allow it to dry 30 minutes then spray a second light coat. You then spray the final coat within 24 hours of the second coat. Next you bake it for 24 hours at 150-200 degrees. I then buff with a very fine buffing compound and wait several days before re-assembling.

Filling in the engravings is fairly easy. micro-tools.com sells paint sticks that are perfect for this.

I am thinking about de-chroming and painting my double stroke M3 when I get it back from DAG. If so I will post a howto with photos..

 

[abenner]

I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, but both Shintaro and Luton talk a bit about the process their repaints go through, and neither mentions a primer. They simply both talk about a bake on enamel. Shintaro seems to talk about each step. His site also says:

"I use baking paint for the parts which can bake. I often use 2 part paint for the parts which can't stay in oven."

I'm not sure if he means that the parts that are baked only get one coat and others get two, or if the parts that can't be baked get a different type of paint. Perhaps they get primed. Either way, his process is rather quick, so he's not doing several layers.

So many decisions...

 

[Mafufo Acilu]

If you think you have the know-how about coating, painting and finshing then by all means you should go ahaed and perform this repaint job.

If your just a bit unclear about what you are doing, and this seems very probable asking a question like this, I would simply forget it. It would ruin your M2.

If you want to bring some "life" into your leica you can easily add some patina to a chrome pre 4-x M camera by lightly having the brass show through the chrome. This is a relatively easy job, and looks good as well.

Apart from the difficulty do you really want to fake a Leica ? chrome is chrome and black is black ....

 

[colyn]

I'm not saying it shouldn't be done, but both Shintaro and Luton talk a bit about the process their repaints go through, and neither mentions a primer. They simply both talk about a bake on enamel. Shintaro seems to talk about each step. His site also says:

Their paint jobs are mainly for show...not use..

"I use baking paint for the parts which can bake. I often use 2 part paint for the parts which can't stay in oven."

There is no such thing as baking paint.. All paints except plastic (plastic impregnated ) paint can be baked even spray can paints can be baked..

I'm not sure if he means that the parts that are baked only get one coat and others get two, or if the parts that can't be baked get a different type of paint. Perhaps they get primed. Either way, his process is rather quick, so he's not doing several layers.

So many decisions...

Many of their paint jobs are applied thick.

If you plan to use the camera for its intended use its best to do the job right..the way I explained in a previous response.

You can do a good job from a spray can if you use automotive grade paint but I would advise finding junk parts to practice on first but you still need to use a good automotive grade etching primer.

 

[PHOTOEIL]

What's wromg about a chrome M2?

 

[bob cole]

What black paint for Leica repaint?

Anyone got ideas?

Here's what Shintaro says:

http://homepage2.nifty.com/Shintaro/aboutpainting.html

 

[mwooten]

Which ever type of paint you choose, I would advise using an airbrush. Much thinner and uniform coats.

Michael