What difference will Steven Lee's Departure make?

[M. Valdemar]

I'd like a clean slate redesign of a camera that is capable of using M-mount lenses.

I enjoy using classic lenses, and it would be nice to have something to attach them to.

I'm sure that eventually an innovative company, maybe a Chinese one, will come up with something.

I've already designed something along those lines that takes C-mount lenses, and I have some manufacturing quotes from Chinese sources. I'm deciding whether to go into production.

 

[M. Valdemar]

Ever hear of C-mount lenses? There are literally millions floating around. You can get Leitz, Kinoptik, Ektra, Bausch & Lomb, Angenieux, anything you please for maybe $10 per lens? Top quality, as good as M-lenses or better.

Perfect image circle for high quality digital sensor, about the same size as the 4/3 system. Retro styling?

Buy all the lenses you want, be a big time hobbyist.

Would you like a camera that uses 'em for $500? The prototypes work swell, no big problems with vignetting or anything else.

How many Japanese college kids will want one? How many film students in USA want something really cool? How about a fisheye model? 90% off the shelf parts.

Big screen, digital focus confirm? All manual or autoexposure? Maybe one that will AF with the lens at infinity for $900?

Just the thing to make in China. How about them Apples? Coming soon.

 

[M. Valdemar]

Or perhaps the FSU logo style is more youth "Lomo" oriented:

http://imageshack.us

 

[xayraa33]

great camera!
no strap lugs though.

 

[M. Valdemar]

Or 1950's "Ford Fairlane"?

Or do them all, in colors, with all different looks and logos. Take a page from Steve Jobs:

 

[M. Valdemar]

It's a prototype. Strap lugs are cheap.

 

[M. Valdemar]

Or for the "M Leica" crowd. Here's a mini-"Leica". Cool enough for you? $600?

(Have not made a prototype of this one yet. This one needs more time on the drawing board)

 

[Ade-oh]

It's going to be hard for any company to get very innovative with the M mount lenses. You are still stuck with that extremely short lens to film plane distance. It's going to take a new camera with new lenses to innovate.

Agreed. Leica lenses are great but they're from a system that isn't going to go in a new direction. If Leica does have a special talent for optical design and manufacture, then they need to apply it to thinking 'outside the box', particularly when the box is the M rangefinder.

 

[M. Valdemar]

They need to keep the "zeit-geist" of the 1930's but make something that works in the 21st Century.

A CLEVER and NIMBLE niche purveyor would have a great big market slice all to themselves.

It would be easy and wise to keep the M-mount and LTM lenses and not orphan them.

Nobody is using their noodle.

Agreed. Leica lenses are great but they're from a system that isn't going to go in a new direction. If Leica does have a special talent for optical design and manufacture, then they need to apply it to thinking 'outside the box', particularly when the box is the M rangefinder.

 

[M. Valdemar]

I'm sure a full frame Leica camera can and will be produced.

Even if there are some perceived flaws, people would gobble them up.

It's nonsense. Problems are made to be solved. I would bet a million dollars Leica has several working full frame prototypes at this very moment.

OK, they might vignette a little. Big deal. Give the public what it wants, fast. Stay in business.

If it would be easy to keep the M-mount lenses, you need to call Leica. I'm sure they would pay dearly for the secret.

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Is this horse pulp yet?

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Ever hear of C-mount lenses? There are literally millions floating around.

OMG, alien lenses! 😱

😀

 

[M. Valdemar]

I don't think so.

Those boutique M film cameras are literally flying out the door, huh?

The huge demand and price increases for all M lenses, vintage and new, are a direct result of the success of the M8.

Make a full frame M9. Be honest about whatever engineering compromises have been made to produce it, but get it out the door.

Let the market decide. Don't price it as much a small automobile. Make it in Asia if you have to, but sell it. Get some creative types working for you.

 

[M. Valdemar]

You don't always need to build a Panzer. Sometimes you need a Kubelwagen, or even a Lexus.

 

[Ade-oh]

Don't price it as much a small automobile. Make it in Asia if you have to, but sell it.

You'll need to tell the German trade unions about this: I'm sure they'll be delighted!

The serious point is that jiggering about with manual focus and rangefinder technology is not the way forwards if Leica want to expand sales, because they won't win back the pros and enthusiasts who have bought into mainstream digital photography. Coming up with something new which embraces the spirit (for want of a better word) of the Leica Ms is another matter. If they can combine traditional Leica quality with real technological innovation, they might succeed.

 

[gavinlg]

I trust japanese made items more than anything made anywhere else in the world.
Now some of the other asian counties are boarding the "quality for less express", like some chinese stuff, thailand, korea.

My father bought a new toyota hilux this year - for those of you that don't know what it is, it's like a smaller version of the tundra but made in thailand. Previous hilux's here in australia are legendary for their reliability, and that comes from being well made previously in japan. When the new version came out, built in thailand, there was a little reluctance from the Aussie public, but after a few months they've proven hugely popular again - selling like crazy.

Just because production is outsourced to somewhere where labour is cheaper doesn't mean it's going to be crap. It all depends on the QC standards and tightness of the compnay.


I say build a lower end M camera sort of like a CL-d in thailand a'la nikon d300, with the current sensor. Sell it for $2500. Then build a german m8 successer with full frame sensor, huge iso capacity, full weather sealing, upgraded and advanced, user interface etc


Come to think of it one of the huge problems with getting people into the digital M line is that they don't have something for people that don't want to buy a camera over a small new car - they need that bottom line M. Outsourcing is the answer.
Of course it may or may not ever happen - but it should at least be something to consider for leica.

Am I the only one thinking this?

 

[M. Valdemar]

I'm talking about a class of enthusiast digital cameras for a very substantial niche market.

At this point in time they are never going to appeal to the vast majority Nikon and Canon DSLR users, but they CAN sell to the aficionados.

And these will be young people, not monied dilettante dentists and the ficitious class of people in Armani suits taking photos of each other in 4 star restaurants.

This weekend I saw about 10 Japanese GIRLS in NYC with old film cameras.

(HERE is your market for a reasonably priced digital camera that accepts M lenses)

You'll need to tell the German trade unions about this: I'm sure they'll be delighted!

The serious point is that jiggering about with manual focus and rangefinder technology is not the way forwards if Leica want to expand sales, because they won't win back the pros and enthusiasts who have bought into mainstream digital photography. Coming up with something new which embraces the spirit (for want of a better word) of the Leica Ms is another matter. If they can combine traditional Leica quality with real technological innovation, they might succeed.

 

[Ade-oh]

This weekend I saw about 10 Japanese GIRLS in NYC with old film cameras.

I'm delighted to hear it. Personally I spent part of the weekend developing a backlog of b&w films taken with my M6 and my MP. However, I doubt that Leica are going to find enough film enthusiasts to keep themselves going (at the prices they have to charge) and the M8 is too much of a niche compromise to really make a difference.

 

[ferider]

I trust japanese made items more than anything made anywhere else in the world.
Now some of the other asian counties are boarding the "quality for less express", like some chinese stuff, thailand, korea.

My father bought a new toyota hilux this year - for those of you that don't know what it is, it's like a smaller version of the tundra but made in thailand. Previous hilux's here in australia are legendary for their reliability, and that comes from being well made previously in japan. When the new version came out, built in thailand, there was a little reluctance from the Aussie public, but after a few months they've proven hugely popular again - selling like crazy.

Just because production is outsourced to somewhere where labour is cheaper doesn't mean it's going to be crap. It all depends on the QC standards and tightness of the compnay.


I say build a lower end M camera sort of like a CL-d in thailand a'la nikon d300, with the current sensor. Sell it for $2500. Then build a german m8 successer with full frame sensor, huge iso capacity, full weather sealing, upgraded and advanced, user interface etc


Come to think of it one of the huge problems with getting people into the digital M line is that they don't have something for people that don't want to buy a camera over a small new car - they need that bottom line M. Outsourcing is the answer.
Of course it may or may not ever happen - but it should at least be something to consider for leica.

Am I the only one thinking this?

Count me in - I completly agree. And if we are lucky this is exactly what will happen. Enriched maybe by an M-mount dig. Nikon reaching the market in parallel (or earlier) than the CL-d.

Roland.

 

[Ade-oh]

Count me in - I completly agree. And if we are lucky this is exactly what will happen. Enriched maybe by an M-mount dig. Nikon reaching the market in parallel (or earlier) than the CL-d.

Roland.

Unless the M mount can be adapted to autofocus, like the Nikon F mount, then I doubt this will fly.