S
Socke
Guest
lynn said:
This would be the lowest common denomniator
What happened to RFF ?? Maybe its me ?
- Thread starter Meleica
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This would be the lowest common denomniator
f/stopblues
photo loner
JoeFriday said:
I might toss out a pass-the-camera project soon, modified somehow though. I want to get the Canonet viewfinder cleaned by Dave first though, and that requires finishing the roll of painfully slow FP4+ that's in there.
Flow
Established
back alley said:
Hi Joe,
By the way I think you are one of the greatest on the forum. 🙂
It is not because I did not want to spend time and energy on posting about it before. It is just I did not want to post a thread and then drives a huge number of members angry. I think the forum is very energetic, just look at how many people post on here during regular business hours and during the weekends (trying to hint something...). The problem is kinda what people post in the threads... And as I said, I do not want to drive other members angry and end up having at least a couple hundred voodoo dolls cursing me at once.
sf
Veteran
natural seasons of RFF.
RFF remains an oasis in the photographer's relevant digital universe.
RFF remains an oasis in the photographer's relevant digital universe.
N
Nick R.
Guest
The profileration of forum topics has the diluted the general discussion forum quite a bit, I think. Anytime something interesting gets started here it gets moved to some other place. Previously, when the rules were looser, most anything could be discussed in the general discussion area. I think it kept things livelier.
jan normandale
Film is the other way
ywenz said:
Hi Ywenz like you I belong to other sites, for example Flickr. I post the same photos there I do at RFF. Feedback on photographs at RFF is low in comparison.
I understand and agree with your observation on Gallery based sites, however RFF has a gallery. It is underutilized by most of the RFF members. Take a look at the number of members without a gallery. Then check the galleries that are left. Some contain nothing but photos of cameras, relatives, and pets. The balance of the members seem to be active and contribute, however that is a small number of the total RFF membership. There are some amazing photographers here who seldom show up or have become inactive. I know because I went through every single RFF gallery when I joined. Those people have chosen to be elsewhere, perhaps one reason is little feedback on their RFF photographic efforts.
Look at today’s RFF home page forum topics, other than this thread and the World Cup it’s…
• Black Bessa R2M Drop Dead Gorgeous
• Focusing accuracy
• M Digital Lens Bayonet Coding
• Industar 61 LD question
• Just waiting for the mail, anyone?
• OT - Large Format Lenses
• M4-2 bogger, updated today
• 88 mm filter
That’s just the nature of RFF it’s demonstrably a user/equipment oriented group and that is not a bad thing, just be pleasantly surprised when you get feedback on your RFF gallery. There are a lot of wonderful people here. I like RFF thats why I'm here.
JoeFriday
Agent Provacateur
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
jan normandale said:
Agree 100%. I suspect the cat photographers are one and the same as the "Shall I get the black or the chrome?" people. Frightening.
jan normandale said:
Little feedback or totally off the wall feedback.
This morning I saw an interesting photo in the random selection. When I followed it up I saw it was nothing special for me, but then I saw that the photographer had written about their own feelings about taking the photo at a Gay Pride march or similar. I went back and saw the photo in a different light.
There were two comments:
The first one asked what developer they'd used! Is that crass or what? Somebody confronts their limits, takes the photo, posts it in their gallery, tells us about their inner feelings. And somebody else asks about the developer. Unbelievable.
The second was a reply from the photographer with the technical information. That photographer is too nice a person to be treated to comments like the first one.
I have posted to the Gallery and received messages asking me about what lens and what aperture and what shutter speed "because some of us like to know these things". I never respond.
R
Rich Silfver
Guest
Jon Claremont said:
Why not?
Technical aspects of a photo can also be a learning experience for many.
Everyone has different opinions, expectations, wants of what RFF or anyplace is or will be. The important thing is that we all just let it be what it is and participate to the level that we each as individuals want to, while respecting everyone else.
RFF is like any place else, new people come, good and bad, old folks go, good and bad. We don't control that nor should we expect to. Things keep changing, they always will. Don't fight it, roll with it, it will change again in due time, that I am sure of.
RFF is like any place else, new people come, good and bad, old folks go, good and bad. We don't control that nor should we expect to. Things keep changing, they always will. Don't fight it, roll with it, it will change again in due time, that I am sure of.
N
Nick R.
Guest
Jon,
The last time we had a thread on the topic of Gallery posting and commenting the utter disdain many of the members showed toward the efforts posted in the gallery really took the heart out of me. Since then, I've commented little and posted nothing.
The last time we had a thread on the topic of Gallery posting and commenting the utter disdain many of the members showed toward the efforts posted in the gallery really took the heart out of me. Since then, I've commented little and posted nothing.
Jon Claremont said:
sbug
Acceptably Sharp
The forums are mostly gear talk and that’s not likely to change. Just look at the forum names if you have any doubt. Most of them are manufacturer based: Leica M8 / MD, Epson R-D1, Zeiss Ikon, Xpan/Fuji TX1, Contax G series, Leica M, Canon , Yashica, Cosina, Bessa, Voigtlander, Russian RF, Fuji, Mamiya 6, Mamiya 7. I think the forums are fine. Some questions are bound to be asked more than once. There’s no avoiding that and there’s nothing wrong with it either. Possibly the search function could be more prominent?
The gallery really seems to be the area where people wish for improvements the most. I used to post regularly to the gallery and got a few comments. However, I find the gallery somewhat difficult to manage and navigate and it is difficult to keep track of new photo postings of specific members without it becoming quite a bit of work. This is why I’ve posted most of my recent photos to flickr. They have the whole ‘photo stream’ management thing dialed. It’s easy to see other’s work you have an interest in and the setup promotes, for lack of a better word, community. I think RFF has a great sense of community in the forums but not so much in the gallery.
Jorge seems very interested in making changes/improvements to RFF. The forums seem fine to me so how about focusing some of this energy on gallery improvements? What about being able to create a Contact list or adding notification when one of your photos receives a comment? Those are two features of flickr that I really enjoy.
Anyhow, that’s my two cents.
The gallery really seems to be the area where people wish for improvements the most. I used to post regularly to the gallery and got a few comments. However, I find the gallery somewhat difficult to manage and navigate and it is difficult to keep track of new photo postings of specific members without it becoming quite a bit of work. This is why I’ve posted most of my recent photos to flickr. They have the whole ‘photo stream’ management thing dialed. It’s easy to see other’s work you have an interest in and the setup promotes, for lack of a better word, community. I think RFF has a great sense of community in the forums but not so much in the gallery.
Jorge seems very interested in making changes/improvements to RFF. The forums seem fine to me so how about focusing some of this energy on gallery improvements? What about being able to create a Contact list or adding notification when one of your photos receives a comment? Those are two features of flickr that I really enjoy.
Anyhow, that’s my two cents.
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
Rich: Yeah right, there's tons of books in any library.
I just know that if I respond 35mm, f16, 1/125 (as if I even knew) that I'd get a follow-up suggesting that the bokeh would have been better at f8 1/500.
I just know that if I respond 35mm, f16, 1/125 (as if I even knew) that I'd get a follow-up suggesting that the bokeh would have been better at f8 1/500.
dmr
Registered Abuser
No, it's not just you ...
No, it's not just you ...
Dan, Flow, you have both said things that I've wanted to say. I've kept my mouth shut except for a couple times, but it is painfully obvious that this system lacks the climate that it once had. I know what both of you are talking about. Others do too. They have said so to me. We are not a few unhappy isolated cases.
Jorge, Joe, others, please cut me some slack here, as I'm going to say a number of things that I'm sure you do not want to hear. Please take this as constructive criticism, intended to make this place better.
When I joined this site, it was a true user community, and I know that Jorge and Joe valued it as such.
I now have the perception that the goal is to make more of a commercial site -- kind of a mini-Ebay, and that goal appears to me (and others) to be secondary to the development of a user community. Whether this is Jorge's intent or not, this is the perception that I and some others have.
Yes, I'm disappointed. This site (as it was) was something I had that I valued, and it's been taken away from me. 🙁
For the past month or so (for the most part) I've been trying to assume that things will get better if I and the others are cheerful and participate and all of that, but it just does not seem to be happening. 🙁
I'm also going to assume that Jorge, Joe, and the other moderators are not oblivious to the fact that many users are not happy and that the level of participation of many very gifted and talented users has dropped off far more than it should.
I'm not going to call the following list my list of gripes, although I am annoyed by them, I'm going to submit these as input to the site owner and moderators as areas where users (plural, I am not the only one) are not happy.
1. The two-class user structure.
I'll say this flat out. I feel less welcome here as a non-contributing user. (If the system were as it was in early 2005, I would gladly contribute -- and I did volunteer to do so at least once -- but that's another topic.) One thing I noticed immediately upon joining was the egalitarian atmosphere. I didn't even know that Joe was Moderator until it was pointed out to me.
This may not be the intent of the site owner and moderators, but it is the perception that I feel, and others have told me they feel likewise. I know I am not alone.
Prior to the two-class user system, I felt that I was valued here for my input and forum contributions, even as amateurish and sometimes as frivolous as it was at times.
Now I feel that users are valued mainly for their monetary contributions, as opposed to their input to the fora and galleries.
The take-aways are majorly annoying! 🙁 (Whether or not these are part of the class system or not.)
I find that I can now only attach 3 images per message. I used to be able to attach 5.
I now find that I'm limited to 20 private messages. I didn't find out I was over quota until somebody pointed it out to me.
Jorge, you are not scoring points with your users by taking away -- and again, I know I am far from the only one -- things like this make people less inclined to donate. 🙁
2. The dealings with "problem" users.
Anybody who has raised a child knows how to deal with childish behavior. The attention that was given to the behavior only escalated the situation(s). A recalcitrant child needs a time-out behind closed doors!
No, I'm not trying to tell the moderators how to moderate, just trying to point out that the childish behavior continued -- in public -- too long.
3. The failure to implement users' desires.
Jorge loves to play with themes and screen layouts. That's fine. It's his toy and he can play with it, but what annoys me is that things like this appear to take precedence over what the users have stated that they really want.
A film forum. Requested multiple times by several people. All of us use different brands of hardware, but one thing we all use (well, other than the R-D1 folx) is film. Why is there the resistance to create such a forum?
The "Today's Posts" button or link or whatever you call it. It used to be on the main screen. I used it, and I'm sure others did. I've asked about it being put back multiple times and I still can't find it.
(If it is there and I'm not looking in the right place, I apologize, but I sure can't find it.)
I finally gave up and asked one of our local technogeeks who is kind of a BBS jock and he told me how to hack the URL line (it's http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/search.php?do=getdaily if anybody else needs it) to make it happen.
But anyway, no, you're not the only one(s) by far.
This place has the potential to be what it once was -- and more -- but it just seems to keep slipping. I really can't do anything other than try to keep being active and cheerful and such, and to let those in charge know when I am not happy -- which I am doing.
I hope this will be taken in the spirit it's being given, that being an airing of grievances as part of an early Festivus.
Now let's proceed to feats of strength! 🙂
No, it's not just you ...
Flow said:
Dan, Flow, you have both said things that I've wanted to say. I've kept my mouth shut except for a couple times, but it is painfully obvious that this system lacks the climate that it once had. I know what both of you are talking about. Others do too. They have said so to me. We are not a few unhappy isolated cases.
Jorge, Joe, others, please cut me some slack here, as I'm going to say a number of things that I'm sure you do not want to hear. Please take this as constructive criticism, intended to make this place better.
When I joined this site, it was a true user community, and I know that Jorge and Joe valued it as such.
I now have the perception that the goal is to make more of a commercial site -- kind of a mini-Ebay, and that goal appears to me (and others) to be secondary to the development of a user community. Whether this is Jorge's intent or not, this is the perception that I and some others have.
Yes, I'm disappointed. This site (as it was) was something I had that I valued, and it's been taken away from me. 🙁
For the past month or so (for the most part) I've been trying to assume that things will get better if I and the others are cheerful and participate and all of that, but it just does not seem to be happening. 🙁
I'm also going to assume that Jorge, Joe, and the other moderators are not oblivious to the fact that many users are not happy and that the level of participation of many very gifted and talented users has dropped off far more than it should.
I'm not going to call the following list my list of gripes, although I am annoyed by them, I'm going to submit these as input to the site owner and moderators as areas where users (plural, I am not the only one) are not happy.
1. The two-class user structure.
I'll say this flat out. I feel less welcome here as a non-contributing user. (If the system were as it was in early 2005, I would gladly contribute -- and I did volunteer to do so at least once -- but that's another topic.) One thing I noticed immediately upon joining was the egalitarian atmosphere. I didn't even know that Joe was Moderator until it was pointed out to me.
This may not be the intent of the site owner and moderators, but it is the perception that I feel, and others have told me they feel likewise. I know I am not alone.
Prior to the two-class user system, I felt that I was valued here for my input and forum contributions, even as amateurish and sometimes as frivolous as it was at times.
Now I feel that users are valued mainly for their monetary contributions, as opposed to their input to the fora and galleries.
The take-aways are majorly annoying! 🙁 (Whether or not these are part of the class system or not.)
I find that I can now only attach 3 images per message. I used to be able to attach 5.
I now find that I'm limited to 20 private messages. I didn't find out I was over quota until somebody pointed it out to me.
Jorge, you are not scoring points with your users by taking away -- and again, I know I am far from the only one -- things like this make people less inclined to donate. 🙁
2. The dealings with "problem" users.
Anybody who has raised a child knows how to deal with childish behavior. The attention that was given to the behavior only escalated the situation(s). A recalcitrant child needs a time-out behind closed doors!
No, I'm not trying to tell the moderators how to moderate, just trying to point out that the childish behavior continued -- in public -- too long.
3. The failure to implement users' desires.
Jorge loves to play with themes and screen layouts. That's fine. It's his toy and he can play with it, but what annoys me is that things like this appear to take precedence over what the users have stated that they really want.
A film forum. Requested multiple times by several people. All of us use different brands of hardware, but one thing we all use (well, other than the R-D1 folx) is film. Why is there the resistance to create such a forum?
The "Today's Posts" button or link or whatever you call it. It used to be on the main screen. I used it, and I'm sure others did. I've asked about it being put back multiple times and I still can't find it.
(If it is there and I'm not looking in the right place, I apologize, but I sure can't find it.)
I finally gave up and asked one of our local technogeeks who is kind of a BBS jock and he told me how to hack the URL line (it's http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/search.php?do=getdaily if anybody else needs it) to make it happen.
But anyway, no, you're not the only one(s) by far.
This place has the potential to be what it once was -- and more -- but it just seems to keep slipping. I really can't do anything other than try to keep being active and cheerful and such, and to let those in charge know when I am not happy -- which I am doing.
I hope this will be taken in the spirit it's being given, that being an airing of grievances as part of an early Festivus.
Now let's proceed to feats of strength! 🙂
R
Rich Silfver
Guest
Jon Claremont said:
And maybe it would had been. Gallery postings are not to educate others all the time - but also to receive comments and ideas (even technical) that can open you up to 'see' in different ways.
N
Nick R.
Guest
Hey, is this thread officially hijacked, yet? 😀
ClaremontPhoto
Jon Claremont
This thread is now buzzing. Exactly what Dan started off asking about.
R
Rich Silfver
Guest
Mojitos anyone?
back alley
IMAGES
well said dmr.
i have little to argue with in what you said and how you said it.
my feeling has been one of dread since there was talk of a paid membership. i think it took less than a day before someone suggested they were just that much better than a non paying member. human nature seems to rise to the lowest denominator sometimes.
it's a tough question though in that to maintain the site money was/is needed.
i liked the days when the word 'moderator' under my name meant so little. seriously. i have no intrinsic need to excercise 'power' over others. and the children you spoke of, they came and tried to conquer and take over and ruin everyone's good time. i am the first to admit that i could have done a better job. it was me that didn't want to ban people and always was willing to offer a second chance. now there are days i want to haul out my baseball bat and have a road trip.
this used to be fun now it's like a job.
my challenge to all who want change for the better - tell us what you see as a really great photo site.
it's easy to criticize...but rise to the standard that dmr has set and tell us, not what you want, but what you think a great site looks like.
and then help us build it.
jjoe
i have little to argue with in what you said and how you said it.
my feeling has been one of dread since there was talk of a paid membership. i think it took less than a day before someone suggested they were just that much better than a non paying member. human nature seems to rise to the lowest denominator sometimes.
it's a tough question though in that to maintain the site money was/is needed.
i liked the days when the word 'moderator' under my name meant so little. seriously. i have no intrinsic need to excercise 'power' over others. and the children you spoke of, they came and tried to conquer and take over and ruin everyone's good time. i am the first to admit that i could have done a better job. it was me that didn't want to ban people and always was willing to offer a second chance. now there are days i want to haul out my baseball bat and have a road trip.
this used to be fun now it's like a job.
my challenge to all who want change for the better - tell us what you see as a really great photo site.
it's easy to criticize...but rise to the standard that dmr has set and tell us, not what you want, but what you think a great site looks like.
and then help us build it.
jjoe
xayraa33
rangefinder user and fancier
Meleica said:
the funny thing is I was thinking the same as Dan yesterday, regarding our RFF but did not have the guts to say anything, almost did, but backed out.
I do miss the style of forum like we had about a year ago,and some of the contributions from some of our now departed intelligent forum members.
yes I know, things change, & one has to accept change...the running cost issues etal.
the classifieds seem to have taken a front seat, along with the fulltime gear hawkers.
more new members, .. more simple question requests ( that is understandable and to be expected)
but really, it is up to all of us to keep this place interesting.. may be not all the time, but most of the time.. now.. I need start more spontanious thread starters like " Tito was a Nikon rf user " etc.
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