colker
Well-known
Digital and film are different medias w/ different strengths. You can look at it as a competition or survival race but i chose to to have both and chose accordingly. I am not extravagant .. it´s common attitude in certain fields. That´s why i believe film will last.
The photo industry made it a survival race. "Digital is here and film is gone". Wrong. Film kept being used in many important applications.
You don´t even need Fuji or Kodak anymore if you shoot BW though i love tri-x.
Since there is interest from new young photographers and companies catering to them like Ferrania and Ilford, i believe film survived.
If Fuji decides they are a digital only company.. it´s a free world: good luck to Fuji. I never used their neopan and don´t care for Acros. Ilford is invested in HP5. There is tri x and T max. There is Portra. There is no doom and gloom but very few film cameras are offered. If people are buying film, someone will sell a film camera. That´s how it works, right?
The photo industry made it a survival race. "Digital is here and film is gone". Wrong. Film kept being used in many important applications.
You don´t even need Fuji or Kodak anymore if you shoot BW though i love tri-x.
Since there is interest from new young photographers and companies catering to them like Ferrania and Ilford, i believe film survived.
If Fuji decides they are a digital only company.. it´s a free world: good luck to Fuji. I never used their neopan and don´t care for Acros. Ilford is invested in HP5. There is tri x and T max. There is Portra. There is no doom and gloom but very few film cameras are offered. If people are buying film, someone will sell a film camera. That´s how it works, right?
Yes, this happens quite often every day on ebay, this forum, apug.org, specialty shops, whats remaining of retail camera stores, Leica stores, and other boutiques.
colker
Well-known
If it keeps growing, there will be new film cameras. And don´t forget Nikon.. they never forgot film.
Now i need to buy a Durst enlarger. I love those things.
Larry Cloetta
Veteran
Yeah, they’re great. I have no idea why they went out of business.
Contarama
Well-known
It's a dead cat bounce bro and they ain't making anymore new ones because there are still millions of old ones that are great. As far as film stock...well someone still makes tin types right?
Three or four years this thread or some variation of will pop up...bet? Film cameras (and some digital ones) will have been up and down and cyclic like they've always been.
My opinion. Get freezer full of it while the getting is good if film gives you a hard on is my advice.
HHPhoto
Well-known
Wrong.
The numbers are available, if you do a proper research. Some manufacturers are obliged to publish their financial data (like Ilford, Kodak, Fujifilm). E.g. Ilford there has published their film sales, which have been increasing for 4 years. In 2017 (latest published year) they had in increase in film sales of +9%. At Fujifilm their instant film production is running in three shifts 24h each day 7 days a week to keep up with demand. The number of sold instax cameras is reaching a new record every year. Their silver-halide business is 2/3 of their total photo business, their digital section is only 1/3 of it.
Kodak reported for 2017 increasing film sales in the 5-15% range (depending on the country).
All film manufacturers recently have either introduced new films, or increased their marketing investments (or did both). Clear signs of increasing demand.
Furthermore the number of labs and used camera gear shops is increasing because of rising demand. Last weak I heard that in Bangkok alone 8 new labs have opened in the last 12 months.
Last Photokina I talked also to the big film distributors like ars-imago and Fotoimpex and all reported significantly increasing demand. The distributors have hired lots of new employees to keep up with the increasing orders.
The number of film photography channels on youtube has exploded in the last 24 months. The number of film related postings on instagram, too.
Here on rff lots of members are still captured in their "film is dead" bubble. Get out of it
.Cheers, Jan
HHPhoto
Well-known
+1.
It's like beer and wine. Different, but both very good
.+1.
They have never made this decision! And they will not made it in the future. Just look at their published yearly reports: Their silver-halide business is very strong and makes more than 1.5 billion $ a year! That is more than double of what all other silver-halide product manufacturers together worldwide do.
The silver-halide products business at Fuji is increasing and makes 2/3 of the revenue of their photo business. Digital photo products are only 1/3 at Fujifilm.
Last Photokina they made an official statement that they will continue production of conventional (non-instant) standard films.
Yes.
Cheers, Jan
HHPhoto
Well-known
Concerning enlarger:
Get a new one from Kaiser Fototechnik in Germany. They are even a bit better than Durst. And they have continued production of enlargers over all the years. Excellent quality and service. German enginering at its best.
http://kaiser-fototechnik.de/en/produkte/2_1_sortiment.asp?w=1342
Or if you want the "Rolls Royce" of enlargers: Go for a Kienzle:
http://kienzle-phototechnik.de/home_english/home_english.html
Cheers, Jan
Out to Lunch
Ventor
Some ten years ago, I was looking for a Nikon SLR and found a new/old stock FM3A online, as well as a new 1.2/50mm. About a year later, I found a mint F3HP, also online. I wonder how a brand new 35mm Nikon could compete giving the abundance of old stock cameras.
HHPhoto
Well-known
Peter, quite simple: Price of new gear compared to increasing price of very old gear with the risk of repairs needed (or repair maybe impossible).
Look e.g. at the price of the FM3A you bought ten years ago: The price of this camera now has significantly increased. And for a camera in mint condition you almost have to pay the former new price now. For a used camera.
When the price difference between a new and a used camera is relatively small lots of customers choose the new one with guarantee and the knowledge, that no one has tortured that camera before
.We've had strong evidence for that in the past: If I would have told you in 2007, that Fujifilm / Cosina Voigtländer would introduce a new folding (!) camera next year, you would have told me that I am crazy (remember: that was the digital boom time).
But exactly that happened: They introduced the Bessa III / GF 670 folding MF camera in 2008.
A clever move, because they have analysed the used market. And they found out that customers pay more than 1,000 bucks for over 30 year old Plaubel Makina 67 cams. They thought that if photographers pay that amount of money for such old cameras, then there will be enough demand for a new camera for about 2,000 bucks.
And they were right. The camera was a success. And if you want one now, you have to pay about the former new price for a used model in good condition!
That is the reason why I am convinced that bringing back such a camera in the near future would work.
There are lots of other used cameras with very high prices near or sometimes even surpassing their former new price like Pentax 67II, Mamiya 7II, Hasselblad XPan, Contax T2 / T3, Olympus Mju, Yashica T5, Contax 645, Nikon FM3A, Linhof Technorama, Zeiss Ikon ZM etc.
There you find first possible candidats for worthy re-introduced film cameras.
Cheers, Jan
Out to Lunch
Ventor
I am not in the business of producing cameras for a profit. This said, I am sure that the economies of scale in bringing a niche product like 35mm cameras to the market, and implementing an after-sales infrastructure is very tricky...even for big companies like Nikon and Canon. Smaller players like Zeiss and Cosina bowed-out of this race not that long ago. This said, I hope I am wrong.
css9450
Veteran
So successful in fact that B&H was still selling them brand new for years after they were discontinued. The last ones they had were in 2017 I think? I remember it well because I kept thinking about buying one. An interesting definition of "successful" if it takes a decade to sell them all.
HHPhoto
Well-known
As explained above, lots of components for e.g. a 35mm SLR are already there because of DSLRs: Metering system, autofocus system, mirror, prism. That can all be shared between a DSLR and a SLR.
We already have seen that: The F6 and D2x/h shared lots of parts, they were developed simultaniously. By the way that led to the fact that in 2004 the F6 - despite being the much more advanced and sophisticated camera - had a lower price than the F5. Because of lower R&D costs.
And the after sales infrastructure is also already there: Canon, Nikon, Pentax e.g. all have service and repair facilities.
And don't forget: Nikon has never left film camera production.
Cheers, Jan
HHPhoto
Well-known
Sorry, that is wrong.
There was a batch of new GF670 cameras from one dealer who got out of business and then offered this batch to B&H for selling it.
And when B&H listed this batch the demand was so big that B&H could even increase the price in the end and sold these cameras in quite a short time.
A clear indication of strong demand.
Cheers, Jan
css9450
Veteran
A "short time" perhaps but I was on the fence for a couple years, and it never was out of stock.
Phil_F_NM
Camera hacker
The F6 and D2h/x/xs share similar design, identical shutter module, pin connectors, UI buttons and wheels as well as the MultiCAM 2000 AF module. That is where the similarity ends. Everything else is different, which is to say over 1000 discreet components and the chassis themselves.
Phil Forrest
Phil Forrest
Out to Lunch
Ventor
Jan, I hope you are right and that I am wrong.
HHPhoto
Well-known
Before this last batch was offered, it was out of stock. I am sure about that, because at that time a friend of mine was looking for a new one and we both did searching globally at dealers.
One of the main Voigtländer distributors in my country told me he could have sold much more Bessa III, the demand has always been there. But even during the production time Voigtländer has had difficulties to supply fast enough. He is convinced that the productionstop was a bad decision.
The huge price increase in the last three years indicates he is right.
Cheers, Jan
Ted Striker
Well-known
Fujifilm's corporate reports are absolutely useless for anything other than INSTAX. Even that is highly questionable. There are no metrics, of any kind specifically assigned to film. The best you can do is look at the photo finishing group inside Imaging Solutions. INSTAX, still film, photo processing, and paper are all lumped into there.
Years ago I heard the CEO of Fujifilm state that traditional film sales comprised of less than 2% of total sales of Fujifilm's revenue. I'm sure today it's not much more than that.
I have been reading Fujifilm's quarterly reports for the past decade. Not only are there no metrics attached to film's performance within the company, there is never (and I mean NEVER) any verbiage associated with film except for INSTAX. You can find statements regarding INSTAX's "strong sales", and that's it.
Ted Striker
Well-known
Fujifilm stopped making their Klasse 35mm rangefinder cameras. I had in my hand one day a Klasse S which I was thinking of buying while in Japan. It was priced at $400. I decided not to buy it. WORST. DECISION. EVER.
Today you can't find one for much less than $800.
There was no demand for the Klasse cameras and so Fujifilm canned the line.
Same with the Natura line. Huge demand in the second hand market, to the point that prices have doubled and continue to go up.
Fujifilm wants out of film so they will not restart production.
Today you can't find one for much less than $800.
There was no demand for the Klasse cameras and so Fujifilm canned the line.
Same with the Natura line. Huge demand in the second hand market, to the point that prices have doubled and continue to go up.
Fujifilm wants out of film so they will not restart production.
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