What if Nikon (and Canon) released new RF FILM cameras (and lenses)?

[colker]

3D Printing offers new opportunities for camera manufacture (metallic and plastic). We have lenses, since even digital needs these. Film transport is not rocket science. Shutters are the most difficult item, and potentially could be produced through 3D printing (focal plane shutter slats, maybe even leaf shutters).

With 3D printing, each camera could be customized (I want red rubber coating on a larger grip, please).

A 3D printed film camera is just that: layers of technologies merged so consumers can have more fun.

 

[markjwyatt]

A 3D printed film camera is just that: layers of technologies merged so consumers can have more fun.

More importantly it is a means for a new camera production industry (smaller scale and reasonable cost). We do not need Nikon or Canon. We need lenses shutters, camera bodies, film transport mechanism, exposure meters (optional), etc., and a group of people dedicated to producing these on whatever scale the market can support. We need film too.

 

[colker]

More importantly it is a means for a new camera production industry (smaller scale and reasonable cost). We do not need Nikon or Canon. We need lenses shutters, camera bodies, film transport mechanism, exposure meters (optional), etc., and a group of people dedicated to producing these on whatever scale the market can support. We need film too.

Different layers of economy merged together.

 

[markjwyatt]

Different layers of economy merged together.

A lot of what we need are manufactured for digital cameras (shutters, exposure metering systems, lenses, etc.). Digital cameras are not going away. 3D printing (aka additive manufacturing) can supply a lot of what is missing.

 

[Larry Cloetta]

Dear Larry,

correct. Therefore I look at the real world outside forums to analyse the real situation. And not at forums.

Here at rff for years the mantra has been "film is dead" and "instant film will be the first film type that will completely die".
Well, just the opposite happened instead. All the armchair experts here have been wrong.

A very one-dimensional view which leads in the wrong direction. Because the phone usage has no influence on film camera usage. That are two completely different things and markets now.

The masses will use the phone. No doubt. That are currently about 3 billion people worldwide, and the number is increasing. Then we have the market of photography lovers and enthusiasts. That are about 2-5% of all photo making people. That is a relative small niche compared to phone use, but in total a big market nevertheless.

With instant film photography we have already a huge mass market. By the way a bigger market compared to even the most glorious film days!! The sales record in instant camera sales was in 2017 with more than 8 million instant cameras! In 2018 this number has been most probably even higher (data is not published yet). The numbers for instant camera sales have surpassed the sales of DSLRs and DSLMs!
The reality has already demonstrated in an impressive way that a film camera comeback is possible.

I don't expect the same huge strength with a standard film camera comeback. But it is also not necessary.
With increasing popularity of film and rising used camera prices we will see the point at which it makes sense for some manufacturers to introduce new film cameras again. Not as million unit p.a. sellers, but with the potential of five digit p.a. sales.
Such products are daily business for camera manufacturers. Cameras like the D3s, D4/s, D5, Df, several Fuji X-models etc. are performing in that sales volumes.
The camera manufacturers need additional profitable new niches. And in some years, film cameras will be that.
In some cases, we have the situation already now: In camera segments where the used prices are already on the level of former new prices like the Voigtländer Bessa III / Fuji GF670, Plaubel Makina, Mamiya 7 II, Pentax 67II, Contax 645.

Cheers, Jan

Hi Jan,

I follow your reasoning, and I know what the numbers are, but, I don’t know. We’ll see. I’ve never been one to say film is dead, but new film camera manufacturing; I’m not personally feeling that Instax is a harbinger of the future outside of more Instax until that buzz wears off, then perhaps less. Is Instax a gateway drug, or just a drug?
But, that’s only my feeling, that decent new film cameras are not going to happen, and I’d be happier if I were wrong than if I were right.
The pricing on that new French M mount digital thing, the pricing that left everyone aghast, seems in line with what the reality of niche market cameras would be, which I think would be a problem. At the affordable end you’ve got extruded plastic. I know you see a business model there, I’m just not.

If you would be willing to go out on a limb, from thoughts you may have gathered from those deep inside the bubble, what’s your time frame for this first new film camera to appear, more or less? I’m not being argumentative with that question, just sincerely wondering if you had any thoughts. Before or after I’m dead, I’m wondering.

Best wishes,

Larry

 

[Phil_F_NM]

Fujifilm Instax was the best selling analog camera last year because Taylor Swift uses one and Fuji created a blinged out model with her signature on it. It is slightly more expensive than the garden variety instax blob but it is also marketed to those fans. Many people buy the camera and an extra pack of film, shoot it all then that's it. Done. On to the next thing within sight of the adolescent attention span. Like said earlier, is it a gateway drug or just a drug? I think it's the latter because you can now get an Instax in the bin at your local Goodwill right next to a moldy SX-70.

Phil Forrest

 

[jawarden]

We already have Voigtlander lenses at a fair price that can go heads with Nikon or Canon lenses. There are still a few Bessa cameras on the market. Buy a system & shoot. Quit daydreaming about the impossible & support Stephen over at Camera Quest. If it wasn’t for the entry level R system a few years ago & the great price I was able to get in at with my limited income I would of had to of settled for shooting my Fed.

Is Cosina still manufacturing Bessas?

Edit: I see they’re not.

 

[RObert Budding]

Great Time to Enter Film Camera Manufature

Great Time to Enter Film Camera Manufature

There's no competition left. What could possibly go wrong?

 

[colker]

Fujifilm Instax was the best selling analog camera last year because Taylor Swift uses one and Fuji created a blinged out model with her signature on it. It is slightly more expensive than the garden variety instax blob but it is also marketed to those fans. Many people buy the camera and an extra pack of film, shoot it all then that's it. Done. On to the next thing within sight of the adolescent attention span. Like said earlier, is it a gateway drug or just a drug? I think it's the latter because you can now get an Instax in the bin at your local Goodwill right next to a moldy SX-70.

Phil Forrest

I will give up my point if someone convinces all bidders of film cameras and lenses on ebay to give up too. Do we have a deal?

 

[css9450]

I just clicked on this thread to see if Instax had been mentioned yet. It was the last one I needed in "RFF Bingo". Thanks everyone!

 

[Larry Cloetta]

I will give up my point if someone convinces all bidders of film cameras and lenses on ebay to give up too.

I bought most of those cameras. Cal bought the rest.

 

[jsrockit]

I bought most of those cameras. Cal bought the rest.

Haha........

 

[kram]

Updated Zeiss ZM please.

 

[colker]

I bought most of those cameras. Cal bought the rest.

I will give you 50 bucks on the lot. Film has no future.😀

 

[gb hill]

Is Cosina still manufacturing Bessas?

Edit: I see they’re not.

No but they can still be found. Stephen I think still has some models NIB.

 

[Phil_F_NM]

It would be nice to hear an industry insider (market exec from Nikon, Canon, Fuji, Sony, Pentax, whomever) some real numbers instead of fantastic speculation based upon the observations of folks here on the forum. Not that your opinions don't have merit, but the only realistic statement from someone on the inside happened at the beginning of the thread where one member said he spoke with someone on the inside who essentially said absolutely not. The marketing departments of these companies have surely seen the slight uptick in used film camera sales due to recent interest, crunched some numbers and came to their decisions. I'd love to hear from those people who deal in real numbers of camera sales, real research, not just a sampling of ebay, looking out in the street where they live and dreams of Rosebud from days long gone.
I'm sorry to be this contrarian on this thread but I'm a realist. I intensely love using photography gear of all types, especially film-based gear and would love new stuff available at decent prices but it is simply not going to happen from anyone other than folks in their garages or in makerspaces, making one-offs for their own use or for sale at extraordinary prices. That's just reality.
Go out and shoot some film. Or images with a digital camera. Or a phone. Enjoy yourselves and spend time with family and loved ones, first and foremost.

Phil Forrest

 

[DougK]

I tend to agree with some of the posters above in that I don't see many, if any, new 35mm or MF cameras being developed from here on out. I claim no particular expertise or knowledge, but I'd wager that large format photography stands to benefit most from 3D printing because it's a lot easier to design and build a large format camera. You don't need a shutter, film advance mechanism, light meter, flash, or any complex mechanicals; you just need a light-tight box that can hold a lens and shutter (or a pinhole) and mount a film holder.

The upshot for me is that I can finally afford to own a camera that I can use to make images I could only dream about before. I've got a phone for the happy snaps, but to be able to shoot large format after all these years? That's amazing.

EDIT: I think a point that I left out is that 3D printing also means you don't have to stock cameras, parts, pay for shipping, or anything like that. Just download the files and in x number of hours, you can print the parts you need to build a camera. For the kind of volume that these cameras seem to sell in, this is a great match.

 

[jawarden]

EDIT: I think a point that I left out is that 3D printing also means you don't have to stock cameras, parts, pay for shipping, or anything like that. Just download the files and in x number of hours, you can print the parts you need to build a camera. For the kind of volume that these cameras seem to sell in, this is a great match.

I agree in principle with what you're saying, but from my experience 3D printing isn't quite ready for products that are expected to be durable and have a high quality feel. You can make a camera with 3D printing and it might make pictures, but with today's tech the quality is behind even basic plastic injection molded cameras.

 

[DougK]

I agree in principle with what you're saying, but from my experience 3D printing isn't quite ready for products that are expected to be durable and have a high quality feel. You can make a camera with 3D printing and it might make pictures, but with today's tech the quality is behind even basic plastic injection molded cameras.

I agree with you based on some server racks that my team has printed out at work; they do the job, but they aren't exactly premium quality. 3D printing does open up some interesting avenues for camera design, though, and the technology keeps getting better. For me, it's opening up an opportunity I never thought I'd have, so that by itself is pretty exciting.

 

[splitimageview]

3D printing is nowhere near mature enough to manufacture cameras of similar precision to those that already exist.