What if Nikon (and Canon) released new RF FILM cameras (and lenses)?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Yes, just reiterating your clarification of 'major manufacturer.'

There will be (and are) small offerings, such as panomicron
 
markjwyatt said:
...at least not MAJOR camera manufacturers (Nikon, Canon, etc.). There may be room for a new business model (think Taxi vs. Uber; Paypal vs. BofA; Tesla vs. GM; etc.).
Click to expand...

Uber filled a need created by price fixing in the taxi industry, unlike new camera bodies.

Paypal was a brilliant idea which created a service no one had thought of before, unlike camera bodies, of which there are millions.

As of May 2015 Elon Musk had received over $4.9 billion in government subsidies, because there wasn’t a need, there was politics, and he’s a born showman. That’s his business model.

None of these are business models which I see as being transferable to tooling up production of new, quality film cameras. Personally. Though there is most certainly room for someone to try this new business model. Lots of room.
 
Larry Cloetta said:
Uber filled a need created by price fixing in the taxi industry, unlike new camera bodies.

Paypal was a brilliant idea which created a service no one had thought of before, unlike camera bodies, of which there are millions.

As of May 2015 Elon Musk had received over $4.9 billion in government subsidies, because there wasn’t a need, there was politics, and he’s a born showman. That’s his business model.

None of these are business models which I see as being transferable to tooling up production of new, quality film cameras. Personally. Though there is most certainly room for someone to try this new business model. Lots of room.
Click to expand...

Ok, I will give you some of those points (esp. on your birthday). I am sure there are a ton of other examples (air taxis, ebikes, airBnB etc.), but: price fixing by taxi companies has been happening for 100+ years. It was a new enabling technology (smart phones) that allowed the model to be broken. 3D printing (I believe) is the technology that will enable a new camera industry.
 
markjwyatt said:
Ok, I will give you some of those points (esp. on your birthday). I am sure there are a ton of other examples (air taxis, ebikes, airBnB etc.), but: price fixing by taxi companies has been happening for 100+ years. It was a new enabling technology (smart phones) that allowed the model to be broken. 3D printing (I believe) is the technology that will enable a new camera industry.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the birthday nod. Would not the 3D printing ability, current and future, be more useful in creating parts to be used to repair the known failure nodes of the best and most common existing cameras instead of trying to build entire new cameras from scratch? That’s something that actually could be done by Joe Sixpack in his garage. You’re not going to be making optical viewfinder lenses with 3D printing.
There’s already somebody making hard to find Contarex hoods that way, as an example. As the 3D tech improves, or with the use of existing CAD CAM tech more durable metal parts can be made. That’s not a pipe dream.
I can see that as being both realistic and helpful.

No?
 
Larry Cloetta said:
Thanks for the birthday nod. Would not the 3D printing ability, current and future, be more useful in creating parts to be used to repair the known failure nodes of the best and most common existing cameras instead of trying to build entire new cameras from scratch? That’s something that actually could be done by Joe Sixpack in his garage. You’re not going to be making optical viewfinder lenses with 3D printing.
There’s already somebody making hard to find Contarex hoods that way, as an example. As the 3D tech improves, or with the use of existing CAD CAM tech more durable metal parts can be made. That’s not a pipe dream.
I can see that as being both realistic and helpful.

No?
Click to expand...

I think replacement parts is a good application (especially once metal systems become more available).

If you follow the thread up I addressed some of this. The idea is that many components are already available and part of the digital camera infrastructure (and many came from film cameras to begin with- lenses, shutters, exposure systems, would also include viewfinders). No need to print that stuff.

I also talk about a standards/open-source approach (much like Bluetooth, wifi, USB, etc. in the computer world). That would get a lot of entrepreneurs making the components needed and help create an alternative camera market.

I mentioned that digging up the old classic gems is a place for the enthusiasts (like many of us), but suspect that keeping this going longer is going to require non-enthusiasts to join (and creating new enthusiasts). I also mention that the iPhone may have already killed this possibility (though some are joining with smart phone technology).

I have seen 3D printed stuff also (a guy in Germany buying interesting old lenses and mounting them in M42 to adapt for digital cameras; I actually bought a couple rear caps for my Contax mount lenses; the panomicron camera mentioned by splitimageview above, etc.).
 
splitimageview said:
I'd like to see some of these film sales numbers from an independent source.

"Still selling Bessa IIIs" isn't really an answer. :) This actually indicates very soft demand...

In any case, assuming that new film cameras are indeed on the horizon, what would such cameras need, in order to entice purchasers to buy new, instead of buying used?

Sure, a new warranty is nice, but how much is that warranty going to cost?

Considering a new F6 is $2500, and used ones routinely sell in the $600-$800 range, and the vast majority of used F6s were not used professionally and have still have decades of service.

Other film cameras are cheap enough it's easy to buy 2 or 3 in case one fails, so the cost is still far below what a newly produced model would cost.

What, if any, gimmicks/features could be added to a new film camera design to entice buyers?
Click to expand...

You guys talk about used as if it´s steady limitless supply of Leica M2, Nikon F3 etc on ebay.. It´s over.

A Leica m6 is selling for 2k + . It´s going up. I would rather buy a new Leica MA or MP the way it´s happening. That´s why Leica is happy about their new cameras. Those are new cameras w/ new names but w/ the same design.

ZI ZM sells for 1.8k. Used. A new one was 1.4k. Cosina could sell it again.. a redesigned ZI, for a bit more or a bit less. It would sell.

Don´t even need to talk about film issues: if the used market keeps the same pace, there will be new film cameras from Japan.
 
colker said:
Don´t even need to talk about film issues: if the used market keeps the same pace, there will be new film cameras from Japan.
Click to expand...

:confused: Why only from Japan? :confused:

The French, the Italians, the British, the Germans, and some more Europeans must restart and make new film cameras!
 
markjwyatt said:
I think the future could be hybrid- i.e., create cameras that can be digital OR film. Maybe both (SLR where the mirrored image gets digitized?).
Click to expand...

Some cameras will be hybrid. Not all. It may be better to have two bodies w/ the same lens mount just like Leica does.

The more possibilities built into one single camera, the heavier it tends to be.
 
Sumarongi said:
:confused: Why only from Japan? :confused:

The French, the Italians, the British, the Germans, and some more Europeans must restart and make new film cameras!
Click to expand...

Nikon can sell an FM4 quick and easy. I doubt they will bring a RF although i would like them to. Cosina can do it.
 
colker said:
You guys talk about used as if it´s steady limitless supply of Leica M2, Nikon F3 etc on ebay.. It´s over.

A Leica m6 is selling for 2k + . It´s going up. I would rather buy a new Leica MA or MP the way it´s happening. That´s why Leica is happy about their new cameras. Those are new cameras w/ new names but w/ the same design.

ZI ZM sells for 1.8k. Used. A new one was 1.4k. Cosina could sell it again.. a redesigned ZI, for a bit more or a bit less. It would sell.

Don´t even need to talk about film issues: if the used market keeps the same pace, there will be new film cameras from Japan.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure what the market prices have to do with this.

The increasing prices of some specific models of film cameras does *not* necessarily directly correlate to increasing film demand.

Assuming that some major manufacturer *DOES* decide that it's worth contributing engineering, manufacturing, and marketing resources to releasing a new design film camera, I ask again, what features/gimmicks could be included to entice buyers to buy new?
 
A few yrs ago i would be totally sceptic about any film ressurgence. On the last couple months i have dug around and there is so much action, so much enthusiasm from new consummers. It´s obvious the habits are changing. Sales and growth happen based on buying habits, wishes, feelings.

Labs died in the recent past. Sure. It will never be like it was in the 70s and 80s. Film and digital will coexist. Thinking in terms of one or the other like we did for the last 15 yrs is a mistake right now. As much as it is a mistake thinking that a company can only survive playing an hegemony game. Niche markets is one of the gates of the current economy and that´s where we diverge in this thread.
 
HHPhoto said:
What I have said is that the situation has changed in the last three years in the US: Labs see increasing demand again, lots of labs invest in marketing and new gear. New labs and camera stores have opened.
Forget what was ten years ago. There is a new dynamic.

Cheers, Jan
Click to expand...

Yes. Something is happening now which is very different from 5yrs ago.
I have used film and labs for decades. I threw it all out (literally threw enlarger out when moving houses) because digital just took over. I have been using top digital cameras from Nikon. I let Pentax cameras rot. Nikon film cameras rot. I was going Fujifilm this year but suddenly i felt a different vibe so i went searching and found a new logic going on.

Professional photography has changed significantly. It has dwindled, diminished. Magazines are gone. Advertising is gone. Yet we see enthusiasm for photography. It´s a new reverence for the photo image and less based on the pro market. Pros who are using digital will be the last to go w/ the film. It´s the enthusiasts who are driving things now.
 
Larry Cloetta said:
It’s not desirable? That’s interesting, because with the same lens fitted, it provides exactly the same result as the F6 I bought new.
I get your point, but my point was that no company can, or will, produce a camera as well built and as competent as an F2 at a price level which people will buy, and at which the company can make money. Contax T3, neither.
The fact that the F2 isn’t the internet flavor of the month in terms of gear lust, doesn’t change that equation.
Whatever.
Click to expand...

You won´t see Pro film cameras. You will see enthusiast´s film cameras. Like Voigtlander´s Bessa.

Pros will use digital. Deadlines now don´t allow for film processing. Art directors want to see the picture while it´s being made.
Film is for enthusiasts.
Otoh.. pro photography is shrinking!
 
colker said:
Professional photography has changed significantly. It has dwindled, diminished. Magazines are gone. Advertising is gone.
Click to expand...

Interesting.

There are far more pros now with digital than there ever were with film.

Sure, print advertising has changed, but it's just been replaced, not eliminated.
 
splitimageview said:
Interesting.

There are far more pros now with digital than there ever were with film.

Sure, print advertising has changed, but it's just been replaced, not eliminated.
Click to expand...

If you have numbers supporting that affirmation.. I don´t . I can only talk from knowing how the market for pro photography has operated on the last 35 years.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom