bmattock
Veteran
What is eBay? I think the answer to that question is not easy to come up with, but the elusiveness of that answer is why so many people are so unhappy with it.
eBay describes itself as "The World's Online Marketplace (R)." That, I think, is part of the problem. eBay is NOT a marketplace, at least not to my way of thinking.
eBay is an online auction house. They conduct auctions on behalf of sellers, who set the reserve prices, describe the merchandise, and complete the transactions by accepting consideration (money) and shipping product.
Auctions are fundamentally different than markets. If you go to a market, you get to examine the merchandise. You can test-drive a car. You can try on a shirt or a pair of pants or a dress (I look great in stiletto heels, but that's another story). Generally, you are buying new merchandise. Often, there is a warranty of the product or a promise that it will perform a particular function. If I buy a lawn mower at Lowes, the motor had better turn over when I get it home, or I take it back and get a refund.
But if I buy a lawn mower on eBay, I take the same chance I would take if I bought it at an estate sale or auction. You can examine it to some extent, but you can't test drive it or get a warranty. If it doesn't start when you get it home, guess what? You lose. That's the end of it. For those of you who didn't grow up in the country, just try taking something back to an auction. Good way to take your teeth home in your pocket.
At an auction, 'as is' and 'caveat emptor' apply in spades. This does NOT mean that sellers have license to defaud buyers. The market acts to put such people out of business due to damage to their reputations in 'real' auctions, and people who out-and-out lie about what they're selling can be arrested like any crook.
What 'as is' means is that you SHOULD ASSUME it does not work. You look it over, it looks like it works. You pick it up - it doesn't feel broken to you. So you decide that it probably wasn't tested properly - probably it DOES work. And you bid. And you win. And it doesn't work. And you say a bad word or two.
Or maybe you were right. The market rewarded you for being astute. And that's what a risk/reward system is.
In any risk/reward sales situation, you MUST ASSUME that the item for sale is as bad as the worst case you can imagine. If the seller says shutter speeds 'sounds good' you must presume he did not test them with a shutter tester and they ARE NOT CORRECT. If the seller says the lens has 'cleaning marks' you must assume that the lens is HEAVILY SCRATCHED.
Having said that - you are bidding against people who want to believe the unit is better than it is - and they'll knock the price up past what a 'broken' unit would go for. So you go along. You hope it will not be a worst case scenario if you win. And maybe it isn't.
Even worse - many sellers have no idea what an auction seller can say or not say. I made that mistake once - I can see it clearly in hindsight. I said that something I was selling was 'perfect'. Well, I made a representation that could NEVER be met. Nothing is perfect, is it? The buyer had a clear avenue to return the item, which the rat bastard did. He was a crook - but he found a false statement that I had (inadvertantly) made and used it to his advantage. On the other hand, if I had said that the item was in 'unknown condition, but looks great!' I would have been on solid ground. What's 'looks great'? That's a subjective description, it could mean anything to anyone. The buyer can't say "No, it doesn't look great, you have to give me my money back!" That's why so many sellers use words like 'minty'. It has no real subjective meaning. You assume that the seller means what YOU mean, and that's a mistake.
As a buyer, you have to use your head and not get carried away. Sellers sell the sizzle, not the steak. You can imagine what it would be like with that Canon P in your hands, fully restored, truly mint, getting admiring looks from famous photogs and hot babes alike. Well we each have our own fantasies, lay off mine!
The point is, you bid on what you want the item to be, not what it most likely is. And fair enough - if you don't, you won't win many auctions. But the fact is, most items are NOT what you imagine them to be.
So what should you do? Well, part of it depends on your own personality. I've met a few people who absolutely demand that nothing they purchase can ever disappoint them in any way, or they get out the lawyers. Whatever. Frankly, I think those people are doomed to be disappointed and should buy from their local camera dealer, who would no doubt welcome the trade.
People who can accept the risk of loss (as long as it is not due to outright deception or fraud) are the best customers of eBay. They bid low, they lose a lot of auctions, but when they win, they often get great deals and they are not often burned for hundreds or thousands.
You also have to be able to exhibit some detective skills to be happy buying on eBay. You must be able to examine feedback. Even if a seller has 98.8% positive feedback, LOOK at the negatives. See what they were about and who placed them. What kind of feedback did THAT person have? Were they just complainers, or did they have good feedback themselves as buyers? What does the seller mostly sell? If they sell tube socks, used shoes, and cameras, chances are they know nothing about cameras. They'll lift a photo off Google, copy text from wherever they find it, they do not have time to do real research or honestly describe the item. They're volume merchants, and don't care much if you don't like their descriptions. You have to look. On the other hand, if all they do is sell cameras and lenses, they should know what the heck they've got, so you would be correct to demand that they know the difference between a camera that 'works great' and one that 'looks great' (do YOU know the difference)?
The successful buyer has to be ready, willing, and able to ask questions. You've usually got a number of days - so ask the seller a question or two! I used to buy a lot of cameras that were described as 'mint' and didn't actually work. Wish I had asked. I finally started, and guess what? Most vintage cameras DON'T WORK AT ALL. Sometimes that is to my advantage as a buyer - I can fix a few simple problems. Sometimes I am glad to know it and I pass.
Here's the real problem, and nobody wants to admit it...
So hang in there a minute and forgive me in advance - I'm about to get harsh on you.
[FLAME]
Listen up, you knuckleheads. The BIDDER has the major work to do to ensure a successful purchase - not the SELLER. The seller only has the obligation not to lie or deceive and to actually consumate the transaction once the auction is over. They do NOT have the obligation to indemnify you against disappointment.
What kind of world do you live in, bidder, that you think the world is required to keep you from being disappointed? Get real, get a life, and put on your big girl panties; crying time is over.
If you're not a knucklehead, then please disregard the above.
[/FLAME]
So go ahead and bid/buy on eBay. And yes, you'll get burned sometimes. If the seller lied or cheated you, there is recourse in most cases. If you keep your wits about you, you won't get cheated most times, and you will know when you're being lied to. You will lose a lot of auctions - to knuckleheads. Smile and let it go, chum.
There will aways be another one of whatever it was.
If it seems like I'm coming off like a know-it-all, well, I'm pretty much right on this. I've been an eBay buyer/seller since 1996, bubbies. That's nearly a decade - call me an early adopter. I've got over 450 positive feedbacks - 100% positive - most from buying not selling. Frankly, I think that sellers are the ones who risk the most in most cases on eBay - the system favors buyers. My advice is correct - but it mostly hard-won, because I've comitted most errors I've described - over and over again. So I've been the knucklehead more times than I like to admit. But I think I'm over that now. So learn something from my idiocy and save yourself some disappointment, huh?
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
eBay describes itself as "The World's Online Marketplace (R)." That, I think, is part of the problem. eBay is NOT a marketplace, at least not to my way of thinking.
eBay is an online auction house. They conduct auctions on behalf of sellers, who set the reserve prices, describe the merchandise, and complete the transactions by accepting consideration (money) and shipping product.
Auctions are fundamentally different than markets. If you go to a market, you get to examine the merchandise. You can test-drive a car. You can try on a shirt or a pair of pants or a dress (I look great in stiletto heels, but that's another story). Generally, you are buying new merchandise. Often, there is a warranty of the product or a promise that it will perform a particular function. If I buy a lawn mower at Lowes, the motor had better turn over when I get it home, or I take it back and get a refund.
But if I buy a lawn mower on eBay, I take the same chance I would take if I bought it at an estate sale or auction. You can examine it to some extent, but you can't test drive it or get a warranty. If it doesn't start when you get it home, guess what? You lose. That's the end of it. For those of you who didn't grow up in the country, just try taking something back to an auction. Good way to take your teeth home in your pocket.
At an auction, 'as is' and 'caveat emptor' apply in spades. This does NOT mean that sellers have license to defaud buyers. The market acts to put such people out of business due to damage to their reputations in 'real' auctions, and people who out-and-out lie about what they're selling can be arrested like any crook.
What 'as is' means is that you SHOULD ASSUME it does not work. You look it over, it looks like it works. You pick it up - it doesn't feel broken to you. So you decide that it probably wasn't tested properly - probably it DOES work. And you bid. And you win. And it doesn't work. And you say a bad word or two.
Or maybe you were right. The market rewarded you for being astute. And that's what a risk/reward system is.
In any risk/reward sales situation, you MUST ASSUME that the item for sale is as bad as the worst case you can imagine. If the seller says shutter speeds 'sounds good' you must presume he did not test them with a shutter tester and they ARE NOT CORRECT. If the seller says the lens has 'cleaning marks' you must assume that the lens is HEAVILY SCRATCHED.
Having said that - you are bidding against people who want to believe the unit is better than it is - and they'll knock the price up past what a 'broken' unit would go for. So you go along. You hope it will not be a worst case scenario if you win. And maybe it isn't.
Even worse - many sellers have no idea what an auction seller can say or not say. I made that mistake once - I can see it clearly in hindsight. I said that something I was selling was 'perfect'. Well, I made a representation that could NEVER be met. Nothing is perfect, is it? The buyer had a clear avenue to return the item, which the rat bastard did. He was a crook - but he found a false statement that I had (inadvertantly) made and used it to his advantage. On the other hand, if I had said that the item was in 'unknown condition, but looks great!' I would have been on solid ground. What's 'looks great'? That's a subjective description, it could mean anything to anyone. The buyer can't say "No, it doesn't look great, you have to give me my money back!" That's why so many sellers use words like 'minty'. It has no real subjective meaning. You assume that the seller means what YOU mean, and that's a mistake.
As a buyer, you have to use your head and not get carried away. Sellers sell the sizzle, not the steak. You can imagine what it would be like with that Canon P in your hands, fully restored, truly mint, getting admiring looks from famous photogs and hot babes alike. Well we each have our own fantasies, lay off mine!
The point is, you bid on what you want the item to be, not what it most likely is. And fair enough - if you don't, you won't win many auctions. But the fact is, most items are NOT what you imagine them to be.
So what should you do? Well, part of it depends on your own personality. I've met a few people who absolutely demand that nothing they purchase can ever disappoint them in any way, or they get out the lawyers. Whatever. Frankly, I think those people are doomed to be disappointed and should buy from their local camera dealer, who would no doubt welcome the trade.
People who can accept the risk of loss (as long as it is not due to outright deception or fraud) are the best customers of eBay. They bid low, they lose a lot of auctions, but when they win, they often get great deals and they are not often burned for hundreds or thousands.
You also have to be able to exhibit some detective skills to be happy buying on eBay. You must be able to examine feedback. Even if a seller has 98.8% positive feedback, LOOK at the negatives. See what they were about and who placed them. What kind of feedback did THAT person have? Were they just complainers, or did they have good feedback themselves as buyers? What does the seller mostly sell? If they sell tube socks, used shoes, and cameras, chances are they know nothing about cameras. They'll lift a photo off Google, copy text from wherever they find it, they do not have time to do real research or honestly describe the item. They're volume merchants, and don't care much if you don't like their descriptions. You have to look. On the other hand, if all they do is sell cameras and lenses, they should know what the heck they've got, so you would be correct to demand that they know the difference between a camera that 'works great' and one that 'looks great' (do YOU know the difference)?
The successful buyer has to be ready, willing, and able to ask questions. You've usually got a number of days - so ask the seller a question or two! I used to buy a lot of cameras that were described as 'mint' and didn't actually work. Wish I had asked. I finally started, and guess what? Most vintage cameras DON'T WORK AT ALL. Sometimes that is to my advantage as a buyer - I can fix a few simple problems. Sometimes I am glad to know it and I pass.
Here's the real problem, and nobody wants to admit it...
So hang in there a minute and forgive me in advance - I'm about to get harsh on you.
[FLAME]
Listen up, you knuckleheads. The BIDDER has the major work to do to ensure a successful purchase - not the SELLER. The seller only has the obligation not to lie or deceive and to actually consumate the transaction once the auction is over. They do NOT have the obligation to indemnify you against disappointment.
What kind of world do you live in, bidder, that you think the world is required to keep you from being disappointed? Get real, get a life, and put on your big girl panties; crying time is over.
If you're not a knucklehead, then please disregard the above.
[/FLAME]
So go ahead and bid/buy on eBay. And yes, you'll get burned sometimes. If the seller lied or cheated you, there is recourse in most cases. If you keep your wits about you, you won't get cheated most times, and you will know when you're being lied to. You will lose a lot of auctions - to knuckleheads. Smile and let it go, chum.
There will aways be another one of whatever it was.
If it seems like I'm coming off like a know-it-all, well, I'm pretty much right on this. I've been an eBay buyer/seller since 1996, bubbies. That's nearly a decade - call me an early adopter. I've got over 450 positive feedbacks - 100% positive - most from buying not selling. Frankly, I think that sellers are the ones who risk the most in most cases on eBay - the system favors buyers. My advice is correct - but it mostly hard-won, because I've comitted most errors I've described - over and over again. So I've been the knucklehead more times than I like to admit. But I think I'm over that now. So learn something from my idiocy and save yourself some disappointment, huh?
Best Regards,
Bill Mattocks
