What is the best B&W film developer for my money?

[ElectroWNED]

(Sorry, I'm sure this has been asked before)

I'm going to start developing/scanning my own black and white films. I'm pretty poor, so I'm looking for something that is going to stretch itself out. I'm willing to wait long amounts of time for the developer to work too... What developer should I be looking at? (I shoot mostly HP5 and Tri-X).

While we're here, what is a good cheap fixer too?

 

[david.elliott]

Diafine lasts forever and is inexpensive to begin with too. You can reuse it for years.

It goes great with tri-x. Keep in mind the EI adjustment though. It works well from 400 to 3200 but with a sweet spot at around 1250 according to my experience.

As to cheap fixer... dunno. I just use ilford rapid fixer.

 

[Keith]

Xtol is the developer I have come to use religiously. It's cheap and I have yet to find a film it's not happy with whether shooting at box speed or pushing.

 

[bmattock]

If it's just cheap you want, I agree with David Elliott about Diafine. I don't think there is anything cheaper in terms of bang for the buck. There may be better developers, as Keith points out, but if it's cheap you want, Diafine over all. I also agree with David about cheap fixer. Fixer is fixer is fixer. Get whatever's the cheapest currently. No-name clones are fine. I buy mine from Freestyle.

 

[Mephiloco]

I consider Rodinal to be pretty cheap. I usually stand develop, tri-x for about 30 minutes at 80 F, inversion at 15 and thats it.

 

[bmattock]

I consider Rodinal to be pretty cheap. I usually stand develop, tri-x for about 30 minutes at 80 F, inversion at 15 and thats it.

It's still one-shot. You dilute it, use it, and throw it away. Diafine just gets reused over and over until you get sick of it or die or something. Mine is going on three years old now. The last batch was older, but I moved and didn't want to be bothered bringing it with me. The stuff gets used at an incredibly slow pace and just never seems to go bad. At least, none that I've ever used. I have read some people say theirs went bad.

 

[ElectroWNED]

is the Diafine going to produce crappy negatives though? Will there be a noticeable difference between Diafine and Xtol?

 

[payasam]

Diafine may not produce the ideal negative, but it will produce a usable one. I say this on the basis of what my friend Al Kaplan told me. For fixer, nothing can be cheaper than buying hypo crystals by weight.

 

[bmattock]

is the Diafine going to produce crappy negatives though? Will there be a noticeable difference between Diafine and Xtol?

Sure there will be a difference.

Diafine is a 2 part developer that develops to exhaustion, and all such developers tend to produce lower contrast results and to give the equivalent of a speed boost to the film.

Diafine has some good qualities for the beginner too. It is panthermic, meaning it works the same at a wide range of temperatures. Since it develops to exhaustion, it is also not dependent upon precise timing - very forgiving that way, you pretty much can't over-develop with it.

So it would be a poor choice for some uses, it's not a general-purpose developer. Great for what it's best at, nothing better. Poor for some uses. But you asked about cheap. Cheap it is.

Developers, like most things, are a series of compromises. You have to decide what it is you want and then deal with that.

 

[ElectroWNED]

This will not be my first time developing- just my first time developing at home (and paying for chemicals)...

 

[david.elliott]

If you want some links to sample photos that I developed in diafine, pm me and I will link you to some of my galleries. Can link you to v500 full size scans as well if you want.

 

[Turtle]

For scanning, I would recommend a dev with fine (ish) grain, which rules out Diafine and Rodinal, esp if you are going to use faster films with it. You also want something that keeps well. This might sound odd, as some rant and rave about 'Xtol failure' but I recommend Xtol, diluted.

Xtol 5L packs are about $10 and will give you 20L of working dev at 1+3 and 15L at my favourite 1+2. In brown plastic Datatainer containers mine lasts close to a year, even with the warmth of summer during which my room reached 24-25 degs in summer. I have never had any fail, nor change in activity no matter how old. I suspect it would last over a year, only I have never taken that long to use it! If you make sure the containers are ari tight and preferably opaque (or kept in the dark) it will last ages and all it takes is a quick film leader test on any old dev to be sure it is still active.

Xtol gives very fine grain at 1+1 and moderately fine grain with a bit more acutance at 1+2 and 1+3. At higher dilutions it also introduces a slight shoulder which will help your scanning by ensuring the Dmax is not excessive. It also gives anout 1/2 a stop or more speed than D76/ID11 and its activity does not oscillate with pH changes like D76/ID11. In my experience is an incredible all rounder that is dependable and predictable, as well as very long lasting.

 

[Keith]

Store Xtol in old wine bladders with no surface air over the developer and failure becomes non existent from my experience ... Trius does this and I got the tip off him!

 

[Mablo]

Tips needed here. I haven't yet figured out how does one clean an empty wine bladder and pour the development liquid inside the bladder?

 

[Tim Gray]

Diafine is probably the cheapest. As mentioned above, Diafine develops negatives in one way and you have no control over that. Tri-X is a good match for it though.

I keep Diafine and XTOL on hand. 1 pack of XTOL gives me about 50 films. It works great with a lot of different films, pushed or not. I use it 1:1.

 

[Gradskater]

I have only used diafine, and from what I understand, it can give a "flat" negative which is very nice for scanning. Once its digitized you play with the curves to get it to look how you want. If you are printing in a darkroom, I have no idea what to use, but if you are scanning, then diafine is great. Just watch your exposure (faster than the film's iso in most cases). All of my black and white on my flickr were developed with diafine if you want samples. All were post-processed in the computer.

 

[Matt(1pt4)]

Xtol 1+1, is $.15 a film. ($10 for 5L stock, 75ml stock per film)
Ilford rapid fixer is $.20 a film ($10 for 4L working strength, 75ml per film)
The cost of Photoflo is negligible.

I spend more on distilled water (about $1 per roll) than I do on chemicals.

Diafine does keep forever, but it starts to get sludgy after 100 rolls. I pitch it at that point, otherwise the sludge tends to end up as spots on the negatives.

 

[Lilserenity]

Xtol failure is one of those issues from years ago that has pretty much gone away now and I personally have not heard of a new case of it for years. When it was first released, there were reports that people using the old 1l packs were experiencing failures.

This no longer seems to be the case (and that was 8/9 years ago) and I have never had a problem myself.

I'd say Xtol or D-76/ID11, not only good starters, but excellent developers full stop. it's pretty much all I use. (Tend to use Xtol for Tri-X and D76 for FP4+)

Vicky

 

[Roger Hicks]

Ilford DD-X is a liquid concentrate that lasts half way to forever and gives a true speed increase of about 2/3 stop. On the down side it's quite expensive. Whether that's good value for money or not is a personal decision.

Cheers,

R.

 

[naruto]

I would go with the others and suggest XTOL. However, if you want an alternative, I suggest you try Thorton's Two Bath Developer.

Metol 100gms 9$
Sodium Sulfite 450gms 7$
Sodium Metaborate 450gms 7$

With the ratios given, the Sulfite (say you put in 70 gms for more acutance) will get over earliest giving you 6 batches. If you get another batch of sulfite, 30$ will give you 12 batches of part A and B. And each batch can be used for 15 rolls, giving you a total of 180 rolls of film. That works out to be 0.17$/roll.

Also, it's the easiest development procedure for any film. Constant time in each bath and practically unchanged by temperature. I have tested Tri-X, APX100, Foma 100/200 and Delta 400 with it and got excellent results.