what is this mysterious dark line?

[mooge]

hi guys,

I have a dark line appearing in a number of my frames...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/50557030@N02/4859926247/

I thought it was a light leak at first... but it's dark. so I think it's a dev problem.

this was taken with my Leica M2 on Legacy Pro 400, HC-110 dil H, 10 mins at 20 degrees.

anyone know what it is?

cheers.

edit: will look up how to attach photos from flickr...

 

[MartinP]

Unfortunately there is no pic in your post
😉

EDIT: Well done, the link is there now. I'll have a look (but probably have no idea of the problem).

 

[rodinal]

Is this a partial crop of the frame ?
If this line was vertical, on one extreme of the frame and across the full frame, then it's a shutter problem.
Did you notice if this happens at all speeds?

 

[mooge]

no, this is not a crop. the line goes across the top of the frame, if it was a horizontal shot (have some of those too!)

I don't think it can be a shutter problem. but I have those too.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/50557030@N02/4860546714/in/photostream/

this one has a bit of darkline and a bit of capping... but I'm not even sure it's capping, because the image is reversed by the lens, right? hmm...

still don't know how to embed from filckr. gah.

 

[MartinP]

As the line is at 90 degrees to the shutter direction (assuming that isn't a cropped picture of course) then it's most likely not a shutter problem.

As the dark line is on the positive it would mean that the neg has a light line instead - and that would lead to the idea that there wasn't quite enough developer in the tank and/or the reel slid on the centre-tube of the tank. For example, some versions of developer tanks use clips around the central tube to hold the reel in place if a multi-reel tank is used, others need two reels all the time for the same reason. Is that a possible cause?

Also have a look outside the frame, on the perforated part of the film, and see what is happening there. As that is outside the frame the shutter should have no effect (barring it being stuck open).

 

[rodinal]

Ok, if across the top of the frame (i.e. bottom of the camera), then may be some kind of dirt stuck to the border of one of the shutter curtains. If so, you will notice such an effect only at higher speeds. To check, open the back of the camera and inspect the shutter when open (at "B") and while winding.

Also, this can be improper development (tank not full), but the line seems a little too even for that. If your film had marks on top and bottom borders (film type, frame numbers, barcodes) Are the marks on the top border of the film the same density as those on the bottom border ?

 

[mooge]

here's a shot of another neg. you can see some sprocket business here...
I don't think it could be a case of not enough developer. I have two reels in, and both get this to an extent... always at the top of the picture...

I don't think this is a high-speed only thing. I have some indoor shots with the same thing. I think all of my pictures from one roll have this, to some degree.😱

thanks guys.

 

[Freakscene]

Looks like the developing tank isn't full.

Marty

 

[mooge]

well, the tank says 600 mL for 2 rolls and that's what I put.

and besides, this happened to both rolls in a 2 roll tank... one much more than the other.

could it be that my tank is dirty? cause my tank is not perfectly clean.

also, could it be bad stop bath? I've never changed my stop bath and it's been like a 17 rolls...

thanks guys.

 

[Roger Hicks]

No, it can't be stop bath. Nor, as you say, can it be insufficient developer on the lower roll in a 2-roll tank. Nor a dirty tank (though cleaning it woulkd be a good idea).

Do you get it with rolls exposed in different cameras? That's the next step in narrowing it down.

Cheers,

R.

 

[sevo]

Film outside stop or fixer might cause staining or have the film turn brown in storage, but it can't cause uneven development.

Your film does not seem to be fully in contact with the developer. Not by level - sprocket flow stripes always rise from the bottom, so that less developed strip must be at the bottom, presumably where the film is sitting in the reel threads. I.e. the developer is depleting at the film surface in that area. You need stronger, more frequent agitation.

 

[Roger Hicks]

Film outside stop or fixer might cause staining or have the film turn brown in storage, but it can't cause uneven development.

Your film does not seem to be fully in contact with the developer. Not by level - sprocket flow stripes always rise from the bottom, so that less developed strip must be at the bottom, presumably where the film is sitting in the reel threads. I.e. the developer is depleting at the film surface in that area. You need stronger, more frequent agitation.

Best idea yet. I'm not sure it's right, but I can't think of better.

Cheers,

R.

 

[mooge]

ok, well the reccomended time is 5 mins at dil B, but I'm doing ten minutes with half the developer (dil H). could it be that I need a stronger developer solution?

thanks!

 

[mooge]

oh, and yes, all these problem rolls were through my Leica M2. all on Legacy Pro 400 film as well.

agitation was 30s for the first minute, then 3 times every minute for the rest. that's what I've always been doing...

 

[dfoo]

I would guess you don't have enough dev in the tank. I once had exactly that problem. Its easy to find out. Put 600ml in the tank and your reels and see whether the dev covers the reels.

 

[elmer3.5]

Flare & shadow

Flare & shadow

Hi, this happened to me as well, it was summertime at 3-4 pm. M4, with lux 50mm v.2 and 400 iso film.
Over 1000 and over f16, i think it couldn´t handle that light.
Check my pic, on the lower left corner.
I believe it´s the same issue! Some kind of casted shadow. It happend on that particular circumstance, never again.

Bye!

 

[Finder]

The developer is not covering the film. What kind of tank? If the tank is also for a rotary processor and you used the volume for rotary processing, then you will not have enough developer for inverted processing.

Also, as dfoo states, the developer should cover the reels, but no more. If you fill a tank completely full, that can result in other interesting processing marks from uneven agitation.

 

[mooge]

nope, 600 mL covers the reels. and both rolls in the tank have this issue- pretty much all frames for one, 4 frames only for the other.

...could it be a factory defect?

 

[Landshark]

Developer coverage? Maybe, use a little more it's not expensive.
Another possibility is an obstruction in the camera, Open the back & look around the bottom of the camera(top of the neg) for a loose light trap.

 

[mooge]

I don't think it's an obstruction... but I've got film in right now.

if you look at the first pic- there's a dark line, then it gets lighter then it goes to normal. hmm...

could it be improperly coated film? but what's the likelyhood of that...

thanks.