What M3 to get?

ymc226

ymc226

Well-known
Local time
5:37 PM
Joined
May 24, 2009
Messages
320
I am thinking about getting an M3, for B&W only. Other than the lack of meter, is it much different from an MP which I am familiar with?

Issues I would like to know:

1) issues I need to ask in buying a 50+ year camera regarding mechanics and specifics for M3.

2) do dealers CLA their old bodies prior to selling them?

3) how is double stroke different from single stroke and what are the pros/cons of each version?

4) what focal length lens are compatible using the viewfinder only? I am interested in 35 but would accept 50mm.

5) how is film loading different if at all?

Thanks
 
It's very similar to an MP, though I like the feel of the M3 better.

1. Are the slow shutter speeds accurate?

2. Probably not as a routine matter, but if it is in good condition or it had a CLA in 1989, it may not need another one.

3. Double stroke takes two short strokes to advance the film frame, while single stroke takes only one and is similar to the MP

4. The viewfinder has 50 -90 - 135 framelines only.

5. Film loading is the same
 
I'll answer the ones I can:

3) Mine is single-stroke, but since it's a ratchet mechanism, you can use it as a double-stroke too. I don't think one is inherently better, it's just a matter of preference.

4) 50mm, 90mm, 135mm

5) Film loading is a bit more complicated. You have to remove the spool and slide the film into it, then place both in the camera. It's similar to the Leica II/III loading, except the back opens up, which makes it easier.

I've never used an MP, so I can't say how it compares. I'm sure others will shortly.
 
In order to reset the film counter the take up spool has to be pulled out slightly. This is only a problem if you have one of the "rapid load" kits installed. With the standard take-up spool you have to remove the spool to slip the film leader into it. The double stroke is usually converted to single stroke when you get a full CLA.

I doubt if many dealers do a CLA before selling the camera. In most cases the camera doesn't neet it. I shot a party last night mostly with my 1958 vintage M2. It got a major CLA and modern PC flash contacts installed shortly after I bought it in 1972. Nothing since. Works great. A camera that's been sitting unused for that long would be all gummed up with dried out grease. From that standpoin an old dinged up and well used "beater" is a better deal than a pristine babied example.

The M3 has frame lines for 50, 90, and 135mm lenses. A lot of us use the 90mm frame with 85mm lenses like the 85mm f/2 Nikkor.

http://thepriceofsilver.blogspot.com

Also, a lot of us "multi-stroke" the wind lever, a series of several short strokes, so the double stroke is no big deal.
 
Welcome YMC,

1) issues I need to ask in buying a 50+ year camera regarding mechanics and specifics for M3.

Best thing to do is run the a role of film through, one frame for each shutter speed. Focus close and medium, far is most often good. Dry fire the speeds to make sure the sound smooth and logical.


2) do dealers CLA their old bodies prior to selling them?

Very few do. Sherry and Ye do but I doubt any others do. If a leica has been used regularly it might not need a CLA. If it's sat in a closet might not be a bad idea. If you work the shutter (a few hundred dry fires on each speed) you can work most Leicas back to OK, but the shutter design prefers a CLA (new goo). Look through the repair forum for good places. They guy up in Boston has great price and a good rep. DAG (Don) and GoldenTouch (Sherry) are the best in the world, but priced higher and might be full up for a while (take longer).

3) how is double stroke different from single stroke and what are the pros/cons of each version?

Not sure I can add too much what was said. Either one is a world class camera.

4) what focal length lens are compatible using the viewfinder only? I am interested in 35 but would accept 50mm.

As said before the M3 is more of a 50-90-135 sort of camera. If you want 35mm then look to a M2. It's just as good as an M3 but does wider glass. Handles slightly different but 35mm frame lines IMHO makes it worth it.


5) how is film loading different if at all?

All the Ms follow the PITA (Pain In The A55) bottom loading approach. I got very good at it over the years and once you get used to it there's nothing wrong with it. It's just different and something you need to learn.

B2 (;->
 
Thanks for the replies. I guess if I want the M3, I will get the 50 lens. I see a few types of lens out there On Sherry Krauter, Tamarkin and Ury's websites. What is the difference other than speed between the:

Summicron 50/2 rigid
Elmar 50/2.8
Elmar M 50/2.8
Summicron 50/2 collapsible
Summicron 50/2 dual range
 
Summicron 50/2 rigid: Classic Leitz lens for B+W, people who have them love them. Close focus is 1m.

Elmar 50/2.8: Collapsible, Tessar design. Good lens, and sharp enough on the whole. Close focus is 1m.

Elmar M 50/2.8: Retro lens similar to the above, though the coating on is liekely to be different. I think most of them are black, as opposed to the chrome of the above. Close focus is .7m.

Summicron 50/2 collapsible: Don't bother. Not as good as either Elmar, or a rigid or current Summicron. Close focus is 1m.

Summicron 50/2 dual range: The same lens as the Rigid Summicron optically, though it has the provison to take 'bug eyes' to allow one to focus between .5m and 1m. Without the eyes attached, close focus is 1m.

Hope this helps.
 
Don't let a double stroke deter you, those are generally cheaper. It can be converted to single but I don't think it's worth the money. I usually wind a single stroke in two short strokes anyway...
 
All in all it's a matter of preference only, single or double stroke does not make any difference. I like the double stroke more (mine is 734xxx, 1955), both from a user and a historical perspective. It feels like an 'Ur-M3', I guess!

Happy shooting, welcome to the forum!
 
it may not be the "best" 50 out there but i wouldn't go as far as to say "don't bother." in fact i would say that every M3 shooter should have one ;)


Benjamin said:
Summicron 50/2 collapsible: Don't bother. Not as good as either Elmar, or a rigid or current Summicron. Close focus is 1m.
Click to expand...
 
hi guys, its a good thing this thread was posted.. i was about to post one too.. I like the M3 too.. and the some of the questions were covered already.. please continue putting more insights and experiences with the M3.. i've been eyeing some M3's lately over at ebay.. but, something tells me not to buy there.. the price varies from seller to seller. I have some questions myself.

do you think a "beat" M3 is a better buy than a gorgeous ex+++ one? i dont mind some paint loss here and there, as long as the mirrors are clean and its in excellent condition..

how about the 50mm summilux f/1.4? is it good? i mean compared to the lenses that were discussed above, how good is it?
 
A used M3 is certainly better than one that hasn't been used for sometime though there is much uncertainty in buying any camera that has been used within an inch of it's life. Good and well used but cared for examples of the M3 do exist. I'm sure you will find the right one if you're patient. Don't buy on ebay if you don't have to. Good examples often come up here, and I'm sure there are sellers who would be willing to post worldwide.

The old Summilux, I believe is known to be pretty soft wide open, though I'm sure there are some here that it works well for. Close focus is also only 1m, which may or may not be an issue for yourself.

Good luck with your search anyway.
 
The greatest disadvantage of the M3 is film loading which people have already commented on; back in the 60's people would have two or three M3/M2 combinations and load film when they had a break.
I have owned mine for 42 years. They are very light, compact and silent.
 
Benjamin said:
A used M3 is certainly better than one that hasn't been used for sometime though there is much uncertainty in buying any camera that has been used within an inch of it's life. Good and well used but cared for examples of the M3 do exist. I'm sure you will find the right one if you're patient. Don't buy on ebay if you don't have to. Good examples often come up here, and I'm sure there are sellers who would be willing to post worldwide.

The old Summilux, I believe is known to be pretty soft wide open, though I'm sure there are some here that it works well for. Close focus is also only 1m, which may or may not be an issue for yourself.

Good luck with your search anyway.
Click to expand...

thanks, actually, im torn between the Voigtlander Bessa R2a, and the M3.. im just not sure what to get.. a new camera, with a bang for the buck quality, or an old 50+ year old camera, with an outstanding array of lenses..

since being new to photography and have been shooting for only 3 months, i dont know anything about leicas, bessas, rangefinders.. all i knew was slrs, nikon and canon.. so what i have is a Nikon FM2n.. i shoot with one lens only.. since i only have one.. a 50mm.. i dont buy other lenses at all just because its just the way i shoot.. if theres another lens i would get, thats the 35mm.. but the two choices above makes it hard for me to decide. but i know its just a personal decision. i just want to hear comments about this M3, and if Leica really is the holy grail of cameras..
 
You mentioned you wanted to shoot a 35mm lens. I'm surprised that nobody points you in the direction of an M2/4 instead. That would be a much more logical choice. I have nothing against the M3, but an M2, on average, would be a bit cheaper AND have the 35mm frame lines. I feel the lens should dictate the body, not the other way around.
 
as usual, you're getting (lots of) good advice here on the RFF. i'll join those in recommending that you look for a properly maintained M3 and lens. the way it works and feels in your hands is not easily described.

i used the forum and also the leica articles at cameraquest dot com for information before buying.......

just to keep your interest at high levels, i've attached a photo showing an m3 (1962) with serial number above 1,000,000; original leather case and strap; 50mm summarit f1,5 (1953), and rebuilt leicameter mr. there are several posts here on the forum called "show your M" etc. so have a search for them as well.

good luck

greetings from hamburg

rick
 
R2A is nice, and I own and used both. While it is very nice the feel is no where close to the M3, not as solid, not as smooth, patch not as bright & contrasty (provided the M3 has been CLA'd)
 
Agreed. Why opt for the M3 if you want to use a 35 most of the time?

HuubL said:
You mentioned you wanted to shoot a 35mm lens. I'm surprised that nobody points you in the direction of an M2/4 instead. That would be a much more logical choice. I have nothing against the M3, but an M2, on average, would be a bit cheaper AND have the 35mm frame lines. I feel the lens should dictate the body, not the other way around.
Click to expand...
 
furcafe said:
Agreed. Why opt for the M3 if you want to use a 35 most of the time?
Click to expand...

if theres another lens i would get, thats the 35mm.. but the two choices above makes it hard for me to decide.

im sorry if i didnt elaborate.. what i meant was, yes, i want the 35mm lens.. but the m3 has this 50-90-135 combinations, that i like also..

while the Bessa R2a, has the 50 and the 35 framelines.. the two lenses i want on one body.. thats why choosing is hard.. i know in the end i have to choose which one i want.. either the 50 or the 35.. M2 or the M3..

the price wont be an issue, because whatever camera i will choose to buy, i would have to save money for at least a year or so..
 
RE the question about single-stroke vs. double: the replacement parts for the double stroke mechanism have not been made for some years. So, many early M3s in which the double stroke mechanism has failed, have been refurbished with a single stroke mechanism. I think my own M3, in the 800,000 range, must have originally been a double stroke. If you get a double-stroke model and the mechanism failed, it must be replaced with a single-stroke one. Not a problem, though--just so you know. :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom