peter_n
Veteran
If you want something that makes images that you fall in love with you need to be a bit more specific about what you love WRT image content. Personally I like Al's advice, especially the wine, women and song bit. 🙂
What outfit would you put together for ± $4000?
- Thread starter Thomas Turnbull
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david.elliott
Well-known
I believe that the memories, not the gear, will make images that you will fall in love with. Have a great time and the love will follow!
That said, gear contributes. Cant take photos without a camera 😉
For a weather sealed digital, I would go with the upcoming Pentax K-7, a m42 adapter and some of the sweet old takumar lenses. That would probably run you around ~$1600. Will cost more if you want modern, autofocus lenses etc. Will cost less if you dont need the latest and greatest model and can go with an older one. Even pentax's lower end models have weather sealing! Dont forget to buy a memory card and extra batteries.
As to medium format, I dont know much about the modern cameras or which ones are weather sealed. I can only really recommend what I have, which is a Rolleiflex 2.8D. It is lightweight and easy to use. I had it CLA-ed by Paul Ebel for a very reasonable price, very quick turnaround, and he did an excellent job. I had it upgraded with a Maxwell Screen. The difference is incredible. Total cost, around 600 for the camera, 150 for the CLA and screen installation, and about 300 for the screen if I remember right. So around $1000.
I would recommend a couple domke gripper straps for your cameras - $20 each or so.
Dont forget to get a light meter! Cant go wrong with a sekonic L-308 for $200 new. There are less expensive options (and plenty that are more expensive) - check out the used market. You could get a used light meter for as little as $15 on ebay.
Assuming you want a rangefinder for a 35mm digital, check out the M bodies and the Bessa bodies.... and the Zeiss Ikon and the Contax G system. You'll have to decide whether you want a metered body, whether you want autofocus (contax g), and whether you want to use the M / SM system or the Contax G system. None of them are weather sealed.
At any rate, I've been very happy with my R3M with CV Nokton 50/1.5 and my Bessa R with 35/2.5. I just ordered a Pentax 43/1.9 Limited too, and I'm really excited about that, but I digress.
For any sort of specific recommendation as to camera and lenses, we'd need to have more info from you.
Hope that helps a bit at least.
Best of luck!
kermaier
Well-known
Since medium format film seems to be a serious possibility for you, I'd go with:
Mamiya 6 or 7 (depending on your preference for 6x6 vs. 6x7) with whichever 2-3 lenses fit your subject needs. If you shoot B&W, load it with Ilford XP2 Super -- you can send it off for C-41 processing, and it has a clear film base which scans well and prints easily in a traditional wet darkroom.
Canon G10, or other semi-serious semi-compact, for more rough-and-ready situations.
::Ari
Mamiya 6 or 7 (depending on your preference for 6x6 vs. 6x7) with whichever 2-3 lenses fit your subject needs. If you shoot B&W, load it with Ilford XP2 Super -- you can send it off for C-41 processing, and it has a clear film base which scans well and prints easily in a traditional wet darkroom.
Canon G10, or other semi-serious semi-compact, for more rough-and-ready situations.
::Ari
W
wlewisiii
Guest
Contax II
21/4.5 Biogon
35/2.8 Biogon
50/1.5 Sonnar, coated
50/2 Sonnar, uncoated
50/3.5 Tessar, uncoated
85/2 Sonnar
135/4 Sonnar
Huge pile of 100ISO film & a diafine travel kit
Ticket to Frankfurt
Eurail Pass
Beer, Women & Song.
😀
William
21/4.5 Biogon
35/2.8 Biogon
50/1.5 Sonnar, coated
50/2 Sonnar, uncoated
50/3.5 Tessar, uncoated
85/2 Sonnar
135/4 Sonnar
Huge pile of 100ISO film & a diafine travel kit
Ticket to Frankfurt
Eurail Pass
Beer, Women & Song.
😀
William
Pablito
coco frío
You won't find it in a store or on the internet. It's between your two ears and no amount of money will buy it.
thomasw_
Well-known
I 'second' this combination. Excellent, versatile and capable of producing very high quality images.
---->As an aside, if you are more of a 'normal' 50mm man, I'd recommend a pre-asph summilux 50/1,4 version 3 or 2 instead of the v4 summicron. Also to save some cash, there are numerous other 35s that are very capable that are less the v4 cron; i.e., the v3 35/2 cron is a fine lens, so are the cv 35/1,4 or ZM 35s: and these are less coin than a v4 summicron.
Roger Vadim
Well-known
great advice!
Thomas Turnbull
Member
Thank you all again. "In the mouth of many counselors is much wisdom!"
I'm delighted at receiving so many responses — and from so many parts of the globe! I'm also amazed, but not really surprised, at the variety of your suggestions. I guess that's why we have so many cameras. There are some common themes, however, and I'm having fun beginning to sort them out. For now, however, you've asked about what I'm interested in making pictures of and how I see my style. I'm not there yet, but it's been worthwhile to try to answeer you. Here's a start.
1. People I care about in ways that affirm them. Informal portraits, interactions, gestures, spontaneous moments, fitting groups at play into the edges of the frame, multiple planes receeding through the depth of field and, especially, what happens as the light moves, delights or surprises us. Hence the need for something quick and more or less unobtrusive. (I also tend not to want to intrude myself into a situation, though I'm told that's more a matter of my own attitude rather than the gear I'm working with. Perhaps it's a "both/and situation.")
2. Intimate landscapes. (I might find myself more interested in landscapes on a grander scale if I had more resolution to work with, but think that'd still be of lower priority. I'm really interested in the delights of coming around an unexpected corner, or the affection we might feel for a place we return to again and again, than in any sense of isolation or separation or insignificance that might be evoked by some vast, uninhabitated vista.) I'm quite willing to crank up the ISO for a rough, sketchy effect at almost any time, but in this category I'd like to have lots of well resolved detail. On the other hand, I do love spontaneous and quickly realized "plein air" painting and Japanese Zen ink & brush paintings and calligraphy. An artist named Charles Hawthorne said to his students that if they got the colour right the forms would follow. I'm a little bit color blind, though I love both it and black & white, so I'd like to have good colour come right out of the camera without a lot of post processing (at which I'm still woefully ignorant and unskilled!) I think this would be especially important in the smaller formats of 35mm and digital capture. (I read that Olympus does a good job here, as does the newish Sony a900 when coupled with Zeiss lenses.) As you might imagine, I've not yet sorted out how much any or all of this might translate into into my own photography, have not yet settled on a particular style for myself and other than keeping on working for the proverbial 10,000 hours, haven't a clue as to how to do so.
3. Light itself. I want to become more aware of subtlties and tonalities here, perhaps especially when working with full range negatives or captures, but I really want to become more aware of ambient light and more able to work with it. I tend to like high key photographs even more than full range ones.
4. Significant Form. I read once an essay by the sculptor and typographer, Eric Gill, that the first thing he looked for in a work of art was "significant form." That's stuck with me ever since as something to try to comprehend and to aim for. I doubt that it has much to do with equipment, though, except in the sense that whatever one used would be better used once it'd become second nature to do so.
5. Abstracts, even if I usually have to set them up myself.
6. My stuff is too often "usual and conventional," but once in a while something else peeps through.
Thanks for your interest and your patience. As Abraham Lincoln once wrote, "I apologize for writing such a long letter. I didn't have time to write a short one."
Thomas
I'm delighted at receiving so many responses — and from so many parts of the globe! I'm also amazed, but not really surprised, at the variety of your suggestions. I guess that's why we have so many cameras. There are some common themes, however, and I'm having fun beginning to sort them out. For now, however, you've asked about what I'm interested in making pictures of and how I see my style. I'm not there yet, but it's been worthwhile to try to answeer you. Here's a start.
1. People I care about in ways that affirm them. Informal portraits, interactions, gestures, spontaneous moments, fitting groups at play into the edges of the frame, multiple planes receeding through the depth of field and, especially, what happens as the light moves, delights or surprises us. Hence the need for something quick and more or less unobtrusive. (I also tend not to want to intrude myself into a situation, though I'm told that's more a matter of my own attitude rather than the gear I'm working with. Perhaps it's a "both/and situation.")
2. Intimate landscapes. (I might find myself more interested in landscapes on a grander scale if I had more resolution to work with, but think that'd still be of lower priority. I'm really interested in the delights of coming around an unexpected corner, or the affection we might feel for a place we return to again and again, than in any sense of isolation or separation or insignificance that might be evoked by some vast, uninhabitated vista.) I'm quite willing to crank up the ISO for a rough, sketchy effect at almost any time, but in this category I'd like to have lots of well resolved detail. On the other hand, I do love spontaneous and quickly realized "plein air" painting and Japanese Zen ink & brush paintings and calligraphy. An artist named Charles Hawthorne said to his students that if they got the colour right the forms would follow. I'm a little bit color blind, though I love both it and black & white, so I'd like to have good colour come right out of the camera without a lot of post processing (at which I'm still woefully ignorant and unskilled!) I think this would be especially important in the smaller formats of 35mm and digital capture. (I read that Olympus does a good job here, as does the newish Sony a900 when coupled with Zeiss lenses.) As you might imagine, I've not yet sorted out how much any or all of this might translate into into my own photography, have not yet settled on a particular style for myself and other than keeping on working for the proverbial 10,000 hours, haven't a clue as to how to do so.
3. Light itself. I want to become more aware of subtlties and tonalities here, perhaps especially when working with full range negatives or captures, but I really want to become more aware of ambient light and more able to work with it. I tend to like high key photographs even more than full range ones.
4. Significant Form. I read once an essay by the sculptor and typographer, Eric Gill, that the first thing he looked for in a work of art was "significant form." That's stuck with me ever since as something to try to comprehend and to aim for. I doubt that it has much to do with equipment, though, except in the sense that whatever one used would be better used once it'd become second nature to do so.
5. Abstracts, even if I usually have to set them up myself.
6. My stuff is too often "usual and conventional," but once in a while something else peeps through.
Thanks for your interest and your patience. As Abraham Lincoln once wrote, "I apologize for writing such a long letter. I didn't have time to write a short one."
Thomas
Pablito
coco frío
and the rest is irrelevant.
aizan
Veteran
leica m8 + 28mm elmarit asph
Thomas Turnbull
Member
PS: Please don't get the wrong idea about that ±$4000. I'm not made of money; as a matter of fact I've been on a medically induced pension for over 15 years. BUT I'd been trying this and that for about 15 years before that and kept up some of it and I wanted to become more intentional about my photography. I hoped that I could sell or trade most all of that gear I'd been messing around with over the decades (or incorporate some of it into my eventual outfit) and so raise about that much cash value by the end of the year. Once I'd decided to tap into your experience and expertise, I also didn't want to inhibit your imaginations by setting too low a figure for you to work with.
Thanks again.
More light!
Thomas
Thanks again.
More light!
Thomas
Thomas Turnbull
Member
Progress Report:
Lots to digest in your many mouth watering offerings! They were all attractive and fascinating and thought provoking (though I'm not sure the Trans-Siberian Railway takes old darkroom stuff in trade, pvdhaar!)
Having picked your brains, however, it's time for a personal reality check, so I've given myself through September to see if the excellent IQ of film will actually trump the bother and ongoing expense of processing it FOR ME.
I'll be using both 35 and 120 film during this experiment. It'll be Fuji Astia and Ilford HP5 in both formats until I get enough of a handle on them to branch out but I'll be staying away from C41 films for the time being. They really offer no particular benefit, as nobody in my city develops them and they'd have to be mailed out, too. Tri-X, of course, is an eventual probability, and I've developed a lot of it myself in the past, but I want to satisfy my curiosity about these other films before heading back that way.
I own a Hexar AF, which is small, quiet, quick, fairly weather resistant with a very good lens and an Olympus XA, which can always be with me and which has a quick response time and a good lens. They should be adequate for the 35mm evaluation.
As for the 120, I actually have access to quite a number of MF film cameras: a Rollei 3.5F, an Autocord TLR of some sort, two different folding Perkeos, some Mamiya studio cameras (not my style) and an Arca Swiss 6 x9 (ditto, but interesting.) I'll concentrate on the Rollei first and foremost, less so on the other square format cameras and we'll see about the others later.
Developing will be done by a single lab in Denver for consistency's sake. I own a Minolta 5400ii 35mm film scanner and an Epson flatbed and a friend will scan any real 120mm keepers with his Minolta 8000.
(I forgot to mention that I also have a lovely little Contax Tix that I paid $50 for and twenty or so rolls of 200 ISO Fuji color film in the freezer that I'll be adding to the mix. Costco here does process and scan that, though really high rez scans would still have to be sent out. The files are small, but the Sonnar 2.8 lens is terrific!)
You've given me LOTS to think about!
Thanks, and I'll keep you posted,
Thomas
Lots to digest in your many mouth watering offerings! They were all attractive and fascinating and thought provoking (though I'm not sure the Trans-Siberian Railway takes old darkroom stuff in trade, pvdhaar!)
Having picked your brains, however, it's time for a personal reality check, so I've given myself through September to see if the excellent IQ of film will actually trump the bother and ongoing expense of processing it FOR ME.
I'll be using both 35 and 120 film during this experiment. It'll be Fuji Astia and Ilford HP5 in both formats until I get enough of a handle on them to branch out but I'll be staying away from C41 films for the time being. They really offer no particular benefit, as nobody in my city develops them and they'd have to be mailed out, too. Tri-X, of course, is an eventual probability, and I've developed a lot of it myself in the past, but I want to satisfy my curiosity about these other films before heading back that way.
I own a Hexar AF, which is small, quiet, quick, fairly weather resistant with a very good lens and an Olympus XA, which can always be with me and which has a quick response time and a good lens. They should be adequate for the 35mm evaluation.
As for the 120, I actually have access to quite a number of MF film cameras: a Rollei 3.5F, an Autocord TLR of some sort, two different folding Perkeos, some Mamiya studio cameras (not my style) and an Arca Swiss 6 x9 (ditto, but interesting.) I'll concentrate on the Rollei first and foremost, less so on the other square format cameras and we'll see about the others later.
Developing will be done by a single lab in Denver for consistency's sake. I own a Minolta 5400ii 35mm film scanner and an Epson flatbed and a friend will scan any real 120mm keepers with his Minolta 8000.
(I forgot to mention that I also have a lovely little Contax Tix that I paid $50 for and twenty or so rolls of 200 ISO Fuji color film in the freezer that I'll be adding to the mix. Costco here does process and scan that, though really high rez scans would still have to be sent out. The files are small, but the Sonnar 2.8 lens is terrific!)
You've given me LOTS to think about!
Thanks, and I'll keep you posted,
Thomas
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