What should a new high end film camera look like?

[Phil_F_NM]

I know what I would like. I want a reflex body that has multi-format/multi-registration capability.
That is, I want to use every 35mm lens ever made on it (using adapters) then I want the ability to switch out the flange to a shorter registration like C mount and 16mm film. I'll spool my own 16mm, than you. Using a series of gates at the film plane of the native 35mm camera, it could shoot 16mm panorama (like Cinerama ratio), Academy, Super16 and good old 3:4.
Maybe I should make a 16mm back for my 5x7...
Is this outside the box enough? 😎
Phil Forrest

 

[zuiko85]

Another consideration is price. Realistically, without the economy of large scale production, this thing will be what, $5K to 10K camera body? I like to dream, but when it comes to opening my wallet, on a fixed retirement income, ain't gonna happen.
Three or four years ago I stumbled onto a OM-4Ti that was 'jammed' for $35. I took the chance that it just needed a fresh set of batteries and that was the case. Already have what I need in OM mount Zuiko's so I'm set already set.

 

[JoeLopez]

F3n or SPn...

But what would the new features be that would make them different from the old models and thus worth getting?

I like the designations.
Not sure if there would be any additional features, what would we really need anyway?
Availability of a new camera and parts would be useful...

 

[BillBingham2]

My design is one that utilizes the past, open source, and fun.

The basics can be printed on a good 3D printer, but the add-ons are specific and many. The same basic body is made out of metal for the company to sell for those who want a step up.

Built-in 1:1 viewfinder/rangefinder that you can slip in frame lines for the glass you are using. It's a fast camera to use (take pictures with) but not to change lenses on.

Initially, I want to use leaf shutters, but perhaps another non-printable upgrade would be a focal plain shutter (ala Speed Graphic).

The same basic design for 6x4.5 all the way up to 4x5. Graphlock backs but adaptable to other options (really wide frame 35mm....). Have better backs (that allow for changing rolls in the middle) would be a great higher-end option. I'm not sure I want to have the design flex for 24x35, way too many good options out there, this is an MF and larger design.

Let's have companies build parts that add functionality and then folks do their own things like sports finders, hand grips, fun stuff. Open source the ability to expand functionality and let's see what happens.

B2 (;->

 

[richardHaw]

nikon F6 😱😱😱

 

[css9450]

Whatever happened to the camera that was on Kickstarter recently; the one with the modular and replaceable lens mounts so you could use practically any kind of lens on it, and the replaceable film backs so you could switch films at any time? It also had an LED for strobe or modelling light/focusing aid and traditional, "70s-era" chrome and leatherette body design. Perhaps it would push all the buttons on many people's want list?

 

[Scottboarding]

I would love a Leica (or other RF) with a viewfinder similar in design to the X-pro and X100 series OVF. The glass and RF patch can be as they usually are, but allow for electronic overlay of the rest of the information. That would allow for brighter frame lines that show up only one at a time. You could have framelines for any focal length, so no more 35mm framelines with the Voigtlander 40mm, instead you can always have the exact framelines for your lens. The metering overlay could be anywhere in the viewfinder, or even turned off if you wanted. The M-D doesn't have a screen, but uses Wifi to change settings so that could be implemented as well. You could fully customize the viewfinder to give a ton of information, or have it be completely clean with only the framelines and RF patch.

 

[Huss]

I know what I would like. I want a reflex body that has multi-format/multi-registration capability.
That is, I want to use every 35mm lens ever made on it (using adapters) then I want the ability to switch out the flange to a shorter registration like C mount and 16mm film. I'll spool my own 16mm, than you. Using a series of gates at the film plane of the native 35mm camera, it could shoot 16mm panorama (like Cinerama ratio), Academy, Super16 and good old 3:4.
Maybe I should make a 16mm back for my 5x7...
Is this outside the box enough? 😎
Phil Forrest

Whatever happened to the camera that was on Kickstarter recently; the one with the modular and replaceable lens mounts so you could use practically any kind of lens on it, and the replaceable film backs so you could switch films at any time? It also had an LED for strobe or modelling light/focusing aid and traditional, "70s-era" chrome and leatherette body design. Perhaps it would push all the buttons on many people's want list?

That actually was very much like what Phil described. It was (is?) Reflex and I backed it like the naieve dummy that I am. Because I was so excited by the idea and the enthusiasm. Supposedly it will ship this year. But it was meant to ship last year. And I think it will never happen. But I really hope it will!

 

[Huss]

I would love a Leica (or other RF) with a viewfinder similar in design to the X-pro and X100 series OVF. The glass and RF patch can be as they usually are, but allow for electronic overlay of the rest of the information. That would allow for brighter frame lines that show up only one at a time. You could have framelines for any focal length, so no more 35mm framelines with the Voigtlander 40mm, instead you can always have the exact framelines for your lens. The metering overlay could be anywhere in the viewfinder, or even turned off if you wanted. The M-D doesn't have a screen, but uses Wifi to change settings so that could be implemented as well. You could fully customize the viewfinder to give a ton of information, or have it be completely clean with only the framelines and RF patch.

I love that idea. Do that with the next film kamera - Lets call it the M7+.. - and update the shutter (1/4000 or 1/8000 sec with 1/250 flash sync), fix the garbage ISO dial, fix the awful battery cap. Keep the traditional MP/MA for those who want old school.

 

[nickthetasmaniac]

I know you don't want anyone disagreeing with your idea (but such is the nature of the internet 🙂 ), but I can honestly say I've never looked through the finder on my M2, MX or 500CM and thought 'gees this experience would be so much better with an EVF'...

Fancy film camera? Give me 1/8000" from a mechanical cloth focal-plane shutter and I'll be happy.

 

[dof]

I also own the M7 and it can definitely be improved. Starting with the shutter, segueing to the plastic film speed dial and ending with the awful battery cap.

Hey! How about a little positivity here? 🙂 Just kidding! As much as I love my M6 TTL, I have to admit that it too is not perfect.

I think an SLR with all the features of the F3HP, but in a smaller body, with a better shutter speed display in the viewfinder, a higher top shutter speed, a higher flash sync speed, and a quiet shutter would be pretty darn cool.

 

[Rayt]

Used film bodies especially from N, C, P, M are so cheap I doubt any company would be foolish enough to market a new camera. But the idea of a film body with EVF is interesting. I would be up for a mirrorless body that can via adapters accept any lens every made.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

So, there are no high end electronics? Only something mechanical can be high end? I guess there will be no high end products in the future then.

The only high end electronics I see these days is for something where a lot of human work is still involved. For programming, R&D.

What kind of high end you could get with something primitive as film for still photography? I think it has to be not another ugly F6. Next to nobody needs it for professional use these days.
But something small and sexy with watch like gears, metal body and not really complicated electronics. Like 700$ I'm film shooter statement, show up camera. Something with genius design. Not just another Lexus/Fuji.

 

[james.liam]

Used film bodies especially from N, C, P, M are so cheap I doubt any company would be foolish enough to market a new camera. But the idea of a film body with EVF is interesting. I would be up for a mirrorless body that can via adapters accept any lens every made.

All interesting ideas and agree that the market is flooded with pure manual cameras. As long as someone can freshen up the oil and there are parts, even from junked cameras, this is not the entree into the market.
Compact AF cameras are hot and selling for crazy money (the R8 and 35 Summicron I recently bought for 25% less than a Contax T3 is an indication and both cannot be repaired). The surviving units from the 90's with 1st gen AF and anti-deluvian mother boards are or have passed their prime and cannot be serviced.

Ricoh would be wise to consider releasing a new film GR. It would be a phenomenal success as the basic body and AF already exist for digital.

 

[Godfrey]

I love people who completely miss the point of the thread.

Again, the thread title is 'what should a new high end film camera look like'

It's not 'let's be Debbie Downer and come up with no creative suggestions'

I love people who judge other people's opinions negatively because they do not agree with them. There's a reason I had you on my ignore list for a long time. You're back there now.

I gave you my opinion on what a new high-end film camera should be, and what I felt would not be worthwhile. You just don't like it. Sorry, but that's your problem.

G

 

[Contarama]

Its been done...they even made lenses for it...in different mounts even. Heck I guess you could even say they made a system out of it fancy cases and all. They were even so bold as to make it a rangefinder. It's called Zeiss Ikon.

Fahrvergnügen...its what makes a camera a camera. 😀

 

[Huss]

I know you don't want anyone disagreeing with your idea (but such is the nature of the internet 🙂 ), but I can honestly say I've never looked through the finder on my M2, MX or 500CM and thought 'gees this experience would be so much better with an EVF'...

Fancy film camera? Give me 1/8000" from a cloth focal-plane shutter and I'll be happy.

No issue at all with disagreeing, but I guess what I would like to see are new ideas, a new direction with film photography. Because we already have so many film cameras available on the used market, making something that is just a warmed over version of that is not exactly imaginative. And doubtfully would give anyone a reason to buy that over a cheaper used alternative.

 

[Huss]

Its been done...they even made lenses for it...in different mounts even. Heck I guess you could even say they made a system out of it fancy cases and all. They were even so bold as to make it a rangefinder. It's called Zeiss Ikon.

Fahrvergnügen...its what makes a camera a camera. 😀

Is that the one made by Cosina a few years ago? It would be nice if they added a ttl flash system to it, gave it a hybrid shutter (or at least added a few mechanical speeds) so it wouldn't be battery dependant and maybe improved the build a bit.
But that really would be just incremental changes.
I really like the idea mentioned previously about adding a Fuji style hybrid optical/digital viewfinder to a film RF camera. Of course that would make it battery dependant, unless it only needed that for the digital part. With no battery power it would just revert to the traditional optical vf.

 

[nickthetasmaniac]

No issue at all with disagreeing, but I guess what I would like to see are new ideas, a new direction with film photography. Because we already have so many film cameras available on the used market, making something that is just a warmed over version of that is not exactly imaginative. And doubtfully would give anyone a reason to buy that over a cheaper used alternative.

I guess the issue for me is that the industry spent decades developing new directions and new ideas for film photography (metering, AF, electronic shutters etc. etc.), and yet the film cameras I actually own and use, when I could afford pretty much any consumer-level film camera ever made, are all manual and mechanical (with the honorable exception of the LX).

I'll put it this way... A 35mm version of the Nikon D850 or Z7 would hold zero interest for me. However, an update to my M2 that could achieve a mechanical 1/8000" with a cloth focal plane shutter - that's the stuff dreams are made of 🙂

 

[CMur12]

Huss, I think part of the lack of enthusiasm here may be that film shooters are largely photographic conservatives.


I know that I tend to look to older cameras that have the basic controls without unnecessary complications, as I know how to use those controls without the intervention of a computer. As such, I have to strain to get into the mindset of this thread.


However, I love TLRs and your idea of an EVF would probably work best in this format. The EVF would also be more useful for assessing tricky lighting than the old Polaroid backs.


Questions:

It seems to me that if you have an EVF, you must have the workings of a digital camera in addition to the film function. Is this what you have in mind (both digital and film capture in the same camera)?



Would it be possible to have a digital sensor and EVF without their own aperture and shutter?


- Murray