What should a new high end film camera look like?

[Rayt]

I guess the issue for me is that the industry spent decades developing new directions and new ideas for film photography (metering, AF, electronic shutters etc. etc.), and yet the film cameras I actually own and use, when I could afford pretty much any consumer-level film camera ever made, are all manual and mechanical (with the honorable exception of the LX).

I'll put it this way... A 35mm version of the Nikon D850 or Z7 would hold zero interest for me. However, an update to my M2 that could achieve a mechanical 1/8000" with a cloth focal plane shutter - that's the stuff dreams are made of 🙂

Sure but will people pay for it? I am the type who thinks $$$ is worth it for a mechanical Swiss watch while others will say a $100 Swatch does the same thing (which is true). While I appreciate the artistry of springs over solenoids the market does not agree.

 

[santino]

A film camera which reassembles the xpro 2 but with a real rf but off course with some sort of hybrid finder. Dual shutters - in body and in lens. No film backs because of the size but some sort of coding you could change mid roll (a la aps).

 

[Huss]

Huss, I think part of the lack of enthusiasm here may be that film shooters are largely photographic conservatives.


I know that I tend to look to older cameras that have the basic controls without unnecessary complications, as I know how to use those controls without the intervention of a computer. As such, I have to strain to get into the mindset of this thread.


However, I love TLRs and your idea of an EVF would probably work best in this format. The EVF would also be more useful for assessing tricky lighting than the old Polaroid backs.


Questions:

It seems to me that if you have an EVF, you must have the workings of a digital camera in addition to the film function. Is this what you have in mind (both digital and film capture in the same camera)?



Would it be possible to have a digital sensor and EVF without their own aperture and shutter?


- Murray

In the TLR model, the viewing lens that leads to the digi sensor and thus EVF could have an electronic shutter, while the taking lens is the traditional leaf shutter and aperture directed towards the film.
It seems that a TLR would be the easiest hybrid to make as it already is basically two cameras in one. The viewing lens could have a leaf shutter too.

 

[Huss]

.. However, an update to my M2 that could achieve a mechanical 1/8000" with a cloth focal plane shutter - that's the stuff dreams are made of 🙂

A 1/8000 sec shutter in a film M would be awesome. Konica already had 1/4000 in their sorely missed RF. I pretty much hate carrying around ND filters so this would be a huge improvement on so many levels.

 

[iphoenix]

My ideal would be a Minox B (need space for the electronics instead of the old meter) with auto focus, digital finder, plus high quality (AND CURRENTLY AVAILABLE:bang🙂 film. If all this could be got inside an earlier model body; even better😀

 

[nickthetasmaniac]

Sure but will people pay for it? I am the type who thinks $$$ is worth it for a mechanical Swiss watch while others will say a $100 Swatch does the same thing (which is true). While I appreciate the artistry of springs over solenoids the market does not agree.

Actually yes, I think people probably would pay for it. What I'm talking about is basically an M-A with a magical shutter, and plenty of people are willing to pay for the M-A.

On the other hand, I think in 2019 there's zero chance people would pay for a new 'high end' electronic 35mm body (aka, a Nikon 'F8'), especially one with an EVF. I just don't think that's what today's film shooters are interested in...

Your Swiss watch example is a good one. Who buys a $100 digital watch nowadays? Your phone tells the time and does a million other things... But people continue to spend silly money on mechanical Swiss watches.

 

[DanskDynamit]

I hate EVF

 

[Skiff]

I'll take a high end Nikon SLR that uses all current F mount lenses.

+1.
That means an updated F6.
You just have to implement the capability for the new "E" type lenses. These lenses can currently only be used at open aperture with the F6 (same is valid for pre D3 Nikon DSLRs).

So for this F7 just take the F6 (which is almost perfect) and
- implement this "E" function
- put the AF system of the coming D6 in it (which will be introduced in the beginning of 2020).
Then you have the perfect film camera for the future. It is very easy, and Nikon would have only tiny, negligible R&D costs.

 

[Disappointed_Horse]

Ricoh would be wise to consider releasing a new film GR. It would be a phenomenal success as the basic body and AF already exist for digital.

I agree. Let's all drop them a line and let them know:


https://www.ricoh-usa.com/en/support-and-download/contact-us?f=sales

 

[leicapixie]

The majority of film cameras mentioned all are super high grade that can/will last forever.
Digital has allowed manufacturers to release supposed "new" models every few years..
The fallacy of unbelievable high ISO, yet for quality one ought use 100/200 ISO...
Fitting EVF is plain silly. Mirror reflex are perfect, RFDR as Leica-M more than satisfy. ,
A new film camera even if a re-issue of Nikon F2, Olympus OM, Hasselblad 500,
Mamiya, Pentax Spotmatic-K-1000, Leica M3 would be very expensive and require trained folk to assemble..
A fun topic like "if" i win the lottery..

 

[james.liam]

The majority of film cameras mentioned all are super high grade that can/will last forever.

Nikon F2, FM2/3a, Leica M3, M6, M7, MP, R 6.5; Pentax; Olympus OM1, etc....yes

The rest....No

The fallacy of unbelievable high ISO, yet for quality one ought use 100/200 ISO...

You can push ISO 3200 film (in the case of Kodak, actually an ISO 800 film) only so far. A Sony A7SII for example will give you pristine ISO 12,500 files, and when its successor arrives, probably 50,000. It does matter. Limited choices for fast color (Cinestill 800T is the fastest, I believe). That beckons a fixed compact with ƒ/1,2 or faster lens.

Fitting EVF is plain silly. Mirror reflex are perfect, RFDR as Leica-M more than satisfy.

Yes, but the newly interested buyers will go for compact AF, given the prices that ancient Contax, Yashica and Olympus models are commanding.

A new film camera even if a re-issue of Nikon F2, Olympus OM, Hasselblad 500 Mamiya, Pentax Spotmatic-K-1000, Leica M3 would be very expensive and require trained folk to assemble..

The Fujifilm/Bessa MF cameras, made in limited numbers now go for crazy money used. I'm sure Cosina can restart that line without great difficulties, as well as the SLR line they used for the recently-discontinued Nikon FM10. Not to mention Ricoh, who already have a superb compact

 

[jsrockit]

I once owned a Minox subminiature camera. It’s one camera that an iphone is definitely better than.

Haha true, but it was a joke. The worst of both worlds!

 

[jsrockit]

Who buys a $100 digital watch nowadays? Your phone tells the time and does a million other things... But people continue to spend silly money on mechanical Swiss watches.

I still like a nice G-Shock myself... people buy Apple Watches in droves. Garmin, Samsung, etc.

 

[jsrockit]

The fallacy of unbelievable high ISO, yet for quality one ought use 100/200 ISO.

Care to expand on this?

 

[Rob-F]

A re-release of the Nikon F3 with a modern viewfinder metering readout would likely be one of the best cameras ever.

+1 to that. If it had meter display that is much better than the "+/-" of the F3, I'm sure I'd buy it. An analog meter needle is my preference. Exposure is an analog phenomenon, so for me, an analog readout is the best man-machine interface. And I do like the F3 high-eyepoint finder.

 

[rolfe]

EOS-1vi, a modestly upgraded EOS-1v.

The EOS-1v already supported 1/8000 sec shutter speed and HSS.

Rolfe

 

[Huss]

EOS-1vi, a modestly upgraded EOS-1v.

The EOS-1v already supported 1/8000 sec shutter speed and HSS.

Rolfe

The Leica R9 also has those features and honestly I cannot think of a better manual focus 35mm film camera. I prefer it to my F6 and F3P/Limited. It also does everything the F6 does apart from AF w/o the need to have menus.
I'd improve it by adding an ISO dial instead of having to push buttons.

It is a chunky monkey but it fits perfectly in hand.

 

[davidnewtonguitars]

A lower-cost Leica MP with 35/50 frame lines on one viewfinder, no switching of frames could cost less. If they changed the curtains to metal, that could be a useful upgrade.

 

[farlymac]

Hmmm, what should a new "high end" film camera look like?



Well, for one it would have gold plating on the top and bottom covers. That would let everyone know you only use the highest value camera.



Body coverings would come in any color you like, even patterns (think leopard print).


Plenty of little add-on accessories to fiddle with as an excuse when you miss the shot.



An exclusive line of straps and half-cases made from exotic materials (non-animal based). Like Nile reeds wove into a basket style by Egyptian river dwellers.



And technically speaking, it would be designed so you'd never have to turn the camera from landscape to portrait orientation. Just a press of a button would rearrange the prism system that also feeds the EVF that Huff requested.


One can dream, can't they?


PF

 

[Jamie123]

Already covered that. I mean how hard can this be?
😉

Like I said, it's certainly possible but it just seems totally silly (again, not trying to be negative, but that's the best way I can describe it). You'd have a camera that's way bulkier than a regular SLR since you'd use a whole SLR mechanism and add a full frame sensor and all the electronics that go with it and for what? So you can accurately preview DoF? You can already preview it on classic SLRs. Yes, it's a lot dimmer but it's still good enough most of the time.

But how about this. Why not just make a repro device instead that exposes a film frame with your favourite digital images? That way you have all the bells and whistles of a digital camera and don't have to waste film frames on shots you're not sure about.