What should a new high end film camera look like?

[Ted Striker]

I would never, ever buy an EVF film camera. Never.



The last generation of film cameras were virtually perfect. I dont see much room for improvement. Canon 1V for sports or wildlife, Contax S2 or Nikon FM2n for those who want all manual, Zeiss Ikon and Leica for those who want manual rangefinders. Contax and Fujifilm p&s for those who want smaller cameras.

 

[Huss]

I would never, ever buy an EVF film camera. Never.



The last generation of film cameras were virtually perfect. I dont see much room for improvement. Canon 1V for sports or wildlife, Contax S2 or Nikon FM2n for those who want all manual, Zeiss Ikon and Leica for those who want manual rangefinders. Contax and Fujifilm p&s for those who want smaller cameras.

Soooo... nothing to add? C'mon man, think out of the box.

I can see plenty wrong with the cameras you just mentioned. Zeiss does not have TTL flash and is battery dependant. Leicas have only 1/1000 sec top shutter speeds. FM2n has a terrible info readout in the VF where you have to look all over the place.
etc etc

 

[Huss]

Well, rangefinder cameras were made... they didn’t see what the film was seeing.

And just because I put my thinking beret on... sure there are workarounds to have both a digital sensor and film in the same body.
Let's think of the SLR format for a second. You know where the focus screen goes? Perpendicular to the film plane? Well replace that with the digital sensor, and have the film where the film always is. This version would still use a mirror to project onto the digi sensor - and the mirror could either flap out of the way so the film can be exposed, or it can be fixed and semi-transparent like in that high speed Canon film camera.
Et voila, film and digital in one body. I kinda like the TLR idea too though..

 

[Swift1]

How would an EVF in a film camera even work? Have you actually thought this through? An EVF in a digital camera is a means to omit the complicated mechanism of a mirror and a prism, thus saving a lot of space. Trying to get an EVF into a film camera that shows exactly what's projected on the film would require quite an elaborate and complex mechanism. Silly idea.

I've actually thought about this for years. Being stuck in a wheelchair and unable to lift a camera up to get my eye on the viewfinder, I have often thought that it would be great to have a film camera with TTL live view on a tilting LCD.
A solution to your question already exists in the Sony A350 DSLR. https://www.dpreview.com/files/p/articles/0782077194/sony_a350_lv.jpeg

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Plug in the film type to the EVF and get an image that renders as the film would before you shoot it - it's how my Fuji XT30 works and it's obviously been done.

 

[Ted Striker]

Soooo... nothing to add? C'mon man, think out of the box.

I can see plenty wrong with the cameras you just mentioned. Zeiss does not have TTL flash and is battery dependant. Leicas have only 1/1000 sec top shutter speeds. FM2n has a terrible info readout in the VF where you have to look all over the place.
etc etc

None of these concerns has much impact on me. I shoot my Nikon FM2n without any feeling of wanting more. I have only one camera with flash and hardly use it. My Canon 1V has a fast shutter if I need it. I have no issues needing batteries.

 

[Ted Striker]

The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. Plug in the film type to the EVF and get an image that renders as the film would before you shoot it - it's how my Fuji XT30 works and it's obviously been done.

None of Fujifilm's film simulations look *anything* at all like their namesakes. Not even close. Astia has more contrast than Provia, the exact opposite of the films in real life. Acros doesnt even remotely look filmlike. It's a 100% digital looking "film". Velvia is particularly ugly, with awful yellows. The film Velvia is beautiful, with gorgeous yellows.

 

[Godfrey]

A TLR comes to mind. Imagine a digital/film hybrid Rolleiflex... The digital sensor would be behind the viewing lens. Film behind the taking lens. A camera like that could capture a digital AND film image at the same time.

Throughout history silly ideas have been the foundation of revolution.

Complex and expensive. Impractical for interchangeable lenses, as we saw with the Mamiya TLR cameras. Problems with parallax at close focus distances.

It would never have more than a tiny niche market. Never mind that, of course, you're not actually getting TTL viewing and focusing except on the digital portion of the camera.

 

[Huss]

None of these concerns has much impact on me. I shoot my Nikon FM2n without any feeling of wanting more. I have only one camera with flash and hardly use it. My Canon 1V has a fast shutter if I need it. I have no issues needing batteries.

So ask yourself this.. how are u contributing here? This is meant to be a fun let’s hear some ideas thread. Play along 🙂

 

[icebear]

M3 or MP what else do you need to expose film?
Either you go analog all the way or stick with digital.
An EVF ...OK, tongue in cheek ... I get it. 😀

 

[Huss]

Complex and expensive. Impractical for interchangeable lenses, as we saw with the Mamiya TLR cameras. Problems with parallax at close focus distances.

It would never have more than a tiny niche market. Never mind that, of course, you're not actually getting TTL viewing and focusing except on the digital portion of the camera.

So ask yourself this.. how are u contributing here? This is meant to be a fun let’s hear some ideas thread. Play along 🙂

I love people who completely miss the point of the thread.

Again, the thread title is 'what should a new high end film camera look like'

It's not 'let's be Debbie Downer and come up with no creative suggestions'

 

[KM-25]

I'll take a high end Nikon SLR that uses all current F mount lenses.

 

[css9450]

Since we're speaking "high end" (since its in the thread title), the camera would need to be full-featured. All modes: P, S, A, M. Matrix metering, center weighted and spot. Exposure compensation. Auto-bracketing. Fast motor drive. Ability to use an IR remote release. TTL flash. Able to use a vertical grip (or at minimum a second release for vertical shooting). Big, crisp and bright optical viewfinder. Ability to illuminate any LCD panels or important buttons in dim light. Diopter adjustment. Long exposures with a regular cable release. Tripod socket in the center of the bottom plate, not in some stupid spot on one end. Ergonomic handgrip. Good split-image focusing screen. Match-needle meter readout while in manual mode. Built-in horizontal levelling aid at the press of a button.

Works with most or all of the camera manufacturers' old lenses...

I could probably come up with more...

 

[Huss]

M3 or MP what else do you need to expose film?
Either you go analog all the way or stick with digital.
An EVF ...OK, tongue in cheek ... I get it. 😀

How would you improve those cameras? Obviously Leica thought to improve the M3 seeing they have not made it for decades. And the MP can be improved with a better shutter and better exposure information read out.
I have a bunch of Ms including MA, M7, M5, M3 etc etc. And with all of them I wished the shutter speed was much quicker than 1/1000. And I wish that the mechanical shutters are as accurate as the electronic one. 1/1000 is actually about 1/750 on the mechanical ones, it's only the M7 that is more accurate.
I would love a 1/4000 sec shutter etc etc Leica can keep the old cloth shutters for die hards, but could introduce the next gen model with a metal shutter. Nikon has made the mechanical 1/4000 shutter in the 1990s with the FM2.

 

[Huss]

Since we're speaking "high end" (since its in the thread title), the camera would need to be full-featured. All modes: P, S, A, M. Matrix metering, center weighted and spot. Exposure compensation. Auto-bracketing. Fast motor drive. Ability to use an IR remote release. TTL flash. Able to use a vertical grip (or at minimum a second release for vertical shooting). Big, crisp and bright optical viewfinder. Ability to illuminate any LCD panels or important buttons in dim light. Diopter adjustment. Long exposures with a regular cable release. Tripod socket in the center of the bottom plate, not in some stupid spot on one end. Ergonomic handgrip. Good split-image focusing screen. Match-needle meter readout while in manual mode. Built-in horizontal levelling aid at the press of a button.

Works with most or all of the camera manufacturers' old lenses...

I could probably come up with more...

Nice, you get it! Pretty much an F7. I like my F6 but stuff like its menu system is awful and really dated.

 

[css9450]

Nice, you get it! Pretty much an F7. I like my F6 but stuff like its menu system is awful and really dated.

Indeed; an updated F6 with some of the niceties that are standard nowadays on DSLRs would fill the bill!

 

[Jamie123]

I've actually thought about this for years. Being stuck in a wheelchair and unable to lift a camera up to get my eye on the viewfinder, I have often thought that it would be great to have a film camera with TTL live view on a tilting LCD.
A solution to your question already exists in the Sony A350 DSLR. https://www.dpreview.com/files/p/articles/0782077194/sony_a350_lv.jpeg

Not the same thing. The EVF in the Sony you linked to shows what's on the focusing screen but the OPs whole reasoning behind an EVF was that it would provide a preview of the actual image including depth of field at the chosen aperture.
In any case, I'm not even saying it's physically impossible to accomplish but it's certainly not very practical.

As for your particular requirement for such a camera, are you sure that can't be achieved by modifying one of those camera adapter things that they use on microscopes? All you need is a decent camera pointing into the viewfinder and an external screen.

 

[retinax]

I'd like to see a compact that can actually slip into a pocket safely. That means weather/dust sealed and flat - pull all the registers with modern aspherics to make a lens (I'd prefer 28mm which isn't hard to make flat, but the real challenge would be a telephoto 50 that's really close to the film plane) that's flush with the body, a la XA. Make it AF and good at it or RF, or easy/quick to scale focus if 28mm, with a DOF scale. Give it a good finder which sits IN THE CORNER - that requires putting the rewind crank to the bottom, or auto wind/rewind, can't say I care much. Make the thing a little larger than an XA, but at least as flat.
Essentially I want a Rollei 35 with great 28mm lens, a little bit larger and more ergonomic, could be more automated or not.
Or call it a new, reliable CLE with pancake 28.
Or call it a new, reliable Ricoh GR1, with better finder, in the corner.
With weather/dust sealing.
If AE, give it exposure compensation and AE lock.
Make it look stylish and you'll sell a ton I think.

 

[B-9]

Canon needs to slip a EOS 1V MKII out into our re-budding film niche.

Ditch the old modular grip design and make it static. Even better if it used a commonly available rechargeable.

Ide throw that on credit. Loll


Might be cool to have a EOS Rf. EVF with Film using the new mount!

 

[Steve M.]

I think a film camera's optical viewfinders is better than any EVF, and film cameras also offer unlimited exposure capability. Just bring more film. My ideal camera would be small, light, and have an old school lens (which has better IQ than today's over contrasty lenses). High end doesn't necessarily mean uber expensive, just well designed and well made.

Like this:

Give me one of those w/an RF, AE, and AE lock, and I'd buy it in a heart beat.