What should I buy?

[totifoto]

Hi everybody

I just found this webside few days ago and love to see all you people that still uses film 😀

I have been taking photos since 2000. I started with a Canon EOS5 film camera and went over to dslr shorty after that. Las summer I bought a medium format camera and started shooting film again and just love it. Now I´m thinking about buying a rangefinder. Leica is on the top of my list but they cost alot 🙁 So I have been looking at Contax G1 and G2 and also at Voightlander. What dou you guys think? I dont wanna spend more that 700 dollars on camera and a standard lens for my first rangefinder. If I get hooked on it and shoot more than I do with my dslr I will save up for a Leica 😉

What do you recommend?

p.s check out my flickr.....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/totifoto/

 

[ClaremontPhoto]

Get any film camera that leaves you enough money for film, travel for photos, and going to photo exhibitions.

There's no need to spend any more than you need.

Real photographers have produced masterpieces with modest cameras.

 

[Al Patterson]

Check the fixed lens rangefinders like Canon QL17s, Yashica GSN, etc. These can be had for less than $100, and will give you good results while you do your research on the next level of gear acquisition.

 

[Avotius]

cant go wrong with a yashica gsn, if you want something that you can change lenses on I highly recommend the bessa r2a.

 

[sirius]

Welcome to the wonderful and addictive world of rangefinder cameras!

I have a Canon P. It's a lovely, well-built, machine. You should be able to get one with the standard (good quality) 50mm f1.8 for around $450/400. There are a lot of nice screw mount lenses available. If you like modern looking contrast and sharpness there are all the voightlander lenses, there are many excellent Canon lenses, and also some lovely Leica screw mounts (or LTM, Leica thread mount).

Enjoy the many excellent sites to read-up on these cameras. Do a search for Karen Nakamura, read up on the classic cameras at cameraquest.com, and check pricing here http://members.aol.com/dcolucci/. Of course, there is a ton of excellent information here on RFF.

An inexpensive Yashica or Canon ql17 giii would be a good place to start and dip your toe in. Check the classifieds. There is a nice Olympus in there right now.

cheers

 

[Wayne R. Scott]

I'll second the Canon P. I would budget $120 toward a CLA from Essex, About $250 to $300 for the P body and $150 for a Canon LTM 50mm f1.8 lens and the remainder of my budget for a hand held light meter and film.

I have 2 P's and had Essex do a CLA (Clean, Lube, Adjust shutter speeds)on them and they are smooth as can be.

Now get ready for a bunch of different ideas from the members.

I love my Leica M2, but I don't think you can get one with a lens and CLA for your budget of $700.

Wayne

 

[pesphoto]

My first was a GSN and I got hooked on Rangefinders. It's a great way to get started for under $100

 

[ferider]

For US 700, if I were you, I would get an EXC+ used R3a and a 40/2 M-Rokkor (basically the Minolta version of the 40/2 C-Summicron); both from KEH.

Best,

Roland.

 

[RF-Addict]

I'd say it depends on what you want out of a rangefinder. The Contax G1/G2 are pretty auto-everything cameras, incl. autofocus and AE-auto exposure. They will pretty much feel like a SLR, but smaller and more straight forward. The huge plus of the Gs are the lenses - they are some of the best lenses ever made - seriously!

The other extreme is an all manual camera without any metering capability - you either have to learn to guess the right exposure or use a handheld meter - it works, but it can also be very frustrating.

The in-between approach is a Bessa R2A or R3A - they have a meter built-in and offer aperture priority modes - pretty much what you would be used to from your DSLR. You can find used Bessas at reasonable prices and the Cosina/Voigtlaender lenses are quite good - not as good as the Zeiss G lenses, but very good nonetheles.

Personally I would giude you towards the Bessa route. The R2A is more for wide angle shooters, the R3A for "normal" shooters.

I use both the G2 and a Bessa R2A and am happy with both of them, but I do use the Bessa more often than the G - I like the manual aspects of a RF camera.

 

[BillBingham2]

Welcome to RFF. I looked at your flicker shots and they are great. You are miles ahead of the usual new-to-RF person (you understand photography and people) so you have a lot of options opened up to you.

Lowest Cost of Entry ($350)
Get a Bessa L used (or two for that matter) and put a CV 25/4 with finder on it. This is my favorite carry camera and lens combo. Unlike the 24/2.8 Nikkor that I grew up with, this lens rocks as a people lens (environmental shots). No RF coupling, you guess the distance, but I’ve only had two pictures in hundreds where I screwed this up (your mileage may vary but I doubt it). The L has a built in light meter and LEDs on the top back so you can adjust exposure and focus as you bring the camera to your eye. The L should cost some where between 75 and 90 for a good one, some times less. You can get the lens new (LTM has been discontinued, the M mount is about a month away, but does not come with a finder) at CameraQuest and other places too (I think). I find this combo actually very fast to use.

Medium Cost of Entry ($400)
Get a combo CV Bessa R & 35/2.5 kit. This is a great place to start with a built in finder/rangefinder combo, light meter, etc. While the R is not a ROBUST camera, it is well made and well understood by many users. I have one on loan to my son to start with in photography. This is a great little kit.

Higher Cost of Entry ($700-800)
Bessa R2 (a green (not as ugly as you might think) one is availed at www.cameraquest.com it looks like) and a faster lens, the 40/1.4. You can use the 35mm frame lines or 50mm, depending upon your preference (do you fill the frame or do you want some edge to crop?). Like most of the CV glass, this lens rocks. It is fast, small and gives great images. The R2 is an M mount camera, you can use LTM (aka Leica Screw Mount) lenses on them with an adapter. It is slightly better built than the R and takes a winder ($160 or so new), IMHO, the best Bessa accessory there is. I have changed to a 40/1.4 as my standard lens that I carry on my M6 and it is right at home there.

You can go with older cameras, there are many great ones made that are in your price range. The Canon P, Nikon S2, Leica M2 are several examples. Even an Leica IIIc is a fine place to start.

I switched to Bessa when I had kids and did not want to carry my Leicas till they were older. I tried an OM-1, but it was not as pocketable as I wanted. I went with a Bessa T because it had a built in meter and took M lenses. I knew I could buy almost any LTM lenses and put an adapter on it to use it on the T or on my M6. It felt like a better decision. The T is a great camera, has a built in range finder, but no viewfinder. You need to use external ones. This worked fine for me for many years, now I am moving back to my Leicas (kids are 9 and 10). Cosina has built a fine set of cameras for the money. They are not Leicas, but they are a great way to get into RF.

Take a look at www.cameraquest.com. Stephen Gandy is the new owner of this site and has been running cameraquest for years. You will find him among the most honest folks selling anything anywhere (IMHO and the same of many others). There is a ton of great info there on CV products and Leicas, Canons and Nikons.

I love my L/25 combo and I bet you will to.

Good luck, welcome, keep asking questions, we all learn that way and let us know what you decide and how you make out.

B2 (;->

 

[totifoto]

Thanx for all the answers guys 😉

Well I have a lightmeter that I use with my medium format camera and when I´m shooting in the studio.

What I want from my rangeinder is:

able to conect to studio lights
focus throught the viewfinder
built in metering

the built in metering is not a big issue for me though but it would be nice to have it 🙄

I have looked at tha Canon p and Canon ql17 giii and they look kinda nice. I have used Canon since I started in photography and always been happy with it.

I´m gonna give myself a few days to look and all kins of cameras so please keep on infoming me 😀

 

[kshapero]

Welcome to RFF. I looked at your flicker shots and they are great. You are miles ahead of the usual new-to-RF person (you understand photography and people) so you have a lot of options opened up to you.

Lowest Cost of Entry ($350)
Get a Bessa L used (or two for that matter) and put a CV 25/4 with finder on it. This is my favorite carry camera and lens combo. Unlike the 24/2.8 Nikkor that I grew up with, this lens rocks as a people lens (environmental shots). No RF coupling, you guess the distance, but I’ve only had two pictures in hundreds where I screwed this up (your mileage may vary but I doubt it). The L has a built in light meter and LEDs on the top back so you can adjust exposure and focus as you bring the camera to your eye. The L should cost some where between 75 and 90 for a good one, some times less. You can get the lens new (LTM has been discontinued, the M mount is about a month away, but does not come with a finder) at CameraQuest and other places too (I think). I find this combo actually very fast to use.

Medium Cost of Entry ($400)
Get a combo CV Bessa R & 35/2.5 kit. This is a great place to start with a built in finder/rangefinder combo, light meter, etc. While the R is not a ROBUST camera, it is well made and well understood by many users. I have one on loan to my son to start with in photography. This is a great little kit.

Higher Cost of Entry ($700-800)
Bessa R2 (a green (not as ugly as you might think) one is availed at www.cameraquest.com it looks like) and a faster lens, the 40/1.4. You can use the 35mm frame lines or 50mm, depending upon your preference (do you fill the frame or do you want some edge to crop?). Like most of the CV glass, this lens rocks. It is fast, small and gives great images. The R2 is an M mount camera, you can use LTM (aka Leica Screw Mount) lenses on them with an adapter. It is slightly better built than the R and takes a winder ($160 or so new), IMHO, the best Bessa accessory there is. I have changed to a 40/1.4 as my standard lens that I carry on my M6 and it is right at home there.

You can go with older cameras, there are many great ones made that are in your price range. The Canon P, Nikon S2, Leica M2 are several examples. Even an Leica IIIc is a fine place to start.

I switched to Bessa when I had kids and did not want to carry my Leicas till they were older. I tried an OM-1, but it was not as pocketable as I wanted. I went with a Bessa T because it had a built in meter and took M lenses. I knew I could buy almost any LTM lenses and put an adapter on it to use it on the T or on my M6. It felt like a better decision. The T is a great camera, has a built in range finder, but no viewfinder. You need to use external ones. This worked fine for me for many years, now I am moving back to my Leicas (kids are 9 and 10). Cosina has built a fine set of cameras for the money. They are not Leicas, but they are a great way to get into RF.

Take a look at www.cameraquest.com. Stephen Gandy is the new owner of this site and has been running cameraquest for years. You will find him among the most honest folks selling anything anywhere (IMHO and the same of many others). There is a ton of great info there on CV products and Leicas, Canons and Nikons.

I love my L/25 combo and I bet you will to.

Good luck, welcome, keep asking questions, we all learn that way and let us know what you decide and how you make out.

B2 (;->

I second this post. Good advice.

 

[totifoto]

I´ve been browsing cameraquest and the Voigtlander R3A with 40/1.4 SC Single Coat lens, LH-5 lens hood looks so good 🙄 Thats almost 1000 $ though 🙁

 

[rbiemer]

I looked at your Flickr shots and have to agree, you know film pretty well!
And since I noticed what you used to shoot the photo I like best, I thought I would suggest an FSU camera--a little sibling to the Kiev 88.
But as I read down to this:

able to conect to studio lights
focus throught the viewfinder
built in metering

I realized that the Kiev/FED/Zorki I was thinking about suggesting don't quite meet your requirements.
Almost any of the cameras I'd suggest would be well under your budget and I guess any camera with a flash connection can control studio lights( but that is a very uninformed guess on my part, I don't know anything about studio lighting). Not many have meters, though.
But I'm going to suggest looking at the FSU cameras anyway for one main reason: you could get a FED2 or Kiev 4 or Zorki 4 with a decent lens for so little money--approximately the same as the fixed lens rangefinders suggested--that I think it's worth while: You will have a competent enough camera to see if you like this kind of camera and RF photography.
And you get the bonus of adding lenses if it does appeal to you with out having to buy another body.
Good hunting!
Rob

 

[totifoto]

I looked at your Flickr shots and have to agree, you know film pretty well!
And since I noticed what you used to shoot the photo I like best, I thought I would suggest an FSU camera--a little sibling to the Kiev 88.
But as I read down to this:

I realized that the Kiev/FED/Zorki I was thinking about suggesting don't quite meet your requirements.
Almost any of the cameras I'd suggest would be well under your budget and I guess any camera with a flash connection can control studio lights( but that is a very uninformed guess on my part, I don't know anything about studio lighting). Not many have meters, though.
But I'm going to suggest looking at the FSU cameras anyway for one main reason: you could get a FED2 or Kiev 4 or Zorki 4 with a decent lens for so little money--approximately the same as the fixed lens rangefinders suggested--that I think it's worth while: You will have a competent enough camera to see if you like this kind of camera and RF photography.
And you get the bonus of adding lenses if it does appeal to you with out having to buy another body.
Good hunting!
Rob

I´ve thought about the russina rangefinders and almost bought one when I bought my medium format. But after looking at cameraquest I´m hooked on buying a Voightlander 🙄 They have everything I want in a camera. Shutter up to 1/2000 and a sync speed at 1/125. They also have some nice wide angle lenses that would be fantastic in my snow/skate photography.

So it has come down to this :

Bessa R Rangefinder Body 299 dollars
w/ 50/1.5 ASPH Nokton 339 dollars.

or


Voigtlander Bessa R2M / R3M 539 dollars
w/ 40/1.4 Classic Nokton, 349 dollars.


What do you think? Upsedes and downsides on both picks? 🙂

Is it worth 250 to go for the second choise?

 

[jesse1dog]

I like your decision to go the Bessa route. I've been thinking about a Canon P but decided that with a lens its just too darn heavy. I like to travel easy and light.

I have a Bessa R and have just picked up a Skopar 25mm f4 plus viewfinder. This looks a handy package. I'm not sure why you are deciding on a Nocton lens at this stage - looks an expensive option but I don't know how you want to use the lens. The R body with a Russian f2 lens would be my first option - relatively cheap and chearful, capabable of great results, won't break the bank, handles quite nicely, and both capable of being upgraded after a lot of fun.

Best of luck whatever you choose.
j

 

[Davor]

Okay, these are basically the ups and downs with those choices:

1.) The 50/1.5 is big, and you may not like that. It's not that large compared to SLR-lenses tough, but huge compared to usual RF-lenses.
2.) The R2M/R3M has much better build quality then the bessa R2. You might want to like into R2A/R3A aswell, if you want aperture priority.
3.) You should get something from the 3-series if you intend to get the 40mm, since the R2 has (afaik) replaced the 40mm-framelines for 35mm-framelines.
4.) You might want to consider getting the MC version instead. Not that you'll notice any difference, but still...

 

[rbiemer]

Fair enough! One other question, though:
Have you thought about one of the CV wide angles for the Bessa?
Rob

I´ve thought about the russina rangefinders and almost bought one when I bought my medium format. But after looking at cameraquest I´m hooked on buying a Voightlander 🙄 They have everything I want in a camera. Shutter up to 1/2000 and a sync speed at 1/125. They also have some nice wide angle lenses that would be fantastic in my snow/skate photography.

So it has come down to this :

Bessa R Rangefinder Body 299 dollars
w/ 50/1.5 ASPH Nokton 339 dollars.

or


Voigtlander Bessa R2M / R3M 539 dollars
w/ 40/1.4 Classic Nokton, 349 dollars.


What do you think? Upsedes and downsides on both picks? 🙂

Is it worth 250 to go for the second choise?

 

[totifoto]

Fair enough! One other question, though:
Have you thought about one of the CV wide angles for the Bessa?
Rob

yes I have and I have my eye on the 15mm and the 12mm but first I wanna get a standard lens. I already have a 30mm on my MF camera that gives me 180° angle and a 10-22mm on my 20D.

 

[totifoto]

Okay, these are basically the ups and downs with those choices:

1.) The 50/1.5 is big, and you may not like that. It's not that large compared to SLR-lenses tough, but huge compared to usual RF-lenses.
2.) The R2M/R3M has much better build quality then the bessa R2. You might want to like into R2A/R3A aswell, if you want aperture priority.
3.) You should get something from the 3-series if you intend to get the 40mm, since the R2 has (afaik) replaced the 40mm-framelines for 35mm-framelines.
4.) You might want to consider getting the MC version instead. Not that you'll notice any difference, but still...

you got a point there, she is a bit big but I´m used to big stuff 😱 I usually have a 70-200 on my 20d with a grip or a 24-70, both lenses are HUGE. When I shoot with my MF I love to use my 30mm that is also HUGE. I want my rangefinder to be my walk around camera so it would be great to have it as light as possible.

I was thinking about the R not the R2. The R2 is about 459 dollars but the R is only 299 dollars.

I dont care mutch if it´s 40 or 50 mm just as long it has a low f number. maybe a 35mm would be enough for me, just have to look better into that.