Roger Hicks
Veteran
Getting the sensor into the film plane, which is 35mm wide. You'd need to machine out the film rails and film guide, because a 'full frame' sensor is a good deal bigger than 35mm wide. Then there are all the connectors around the edges. As rxmd explained, with a camera that's designed to take interchangeable backs in the first place, it's (comparatively) easy. If you have to machine out the film gate, it's a LOT more difficult and expensive.
Yes, Leica managed a dual-platform 35mm/digital camera, but it was designed that way from the beginning. With the exception of a handful of interchangeable-back 35mm cameras, no others were designed that way.
Cheers,
R.
sanmich
Veteran
Got it
thanks
kulma
Newbie
Guys,
only way to make prices lower is to stop buying used leica stuff. Greatings,
kulma
only way to make prices lower is to stop buying used leica stuff. Greatings,
kulma
But you can't buy new due to almost everything being out of stock.
j j
Well-known
I was not considering any different camera models, merely pointing out that such things exist already and can be attached to a number of different cameras designed originally for film.
shaunmlavery
Member
That won't really change much. We need nearly everyone to stop buying it. The market of 5-10 years ago would be great.
It's really simple. Supply and demand. Too many people are now shooting leicas for leica to keep up with the demand. This is what I always liked about leica but now that everyone is one the bandwagon, it is tough to try out certain lenses because of the price hike they have seen. Forget buying new. I can't afford that.
At the same time, it is nice because are gear, even though it makes us money, goes up in price at the same time. My noctilux I grabbed a year or so ago, has gone up. I felt dumb buying that, risky. Well, if someone wants that from me now with the way prices are, I think I may let them have it. I don't have to have it "that much."
Even though some of these prices may seem inflated, you can still find "deals" and come out okay if you time things right. The main problem, you just have to have more money to play with. I want a 35 summilux but it makes me cringe how much people are willing to pay for those. I guess I don't need one just yet.
Roger Hicks
Veteran
And I am merely pointing out that unless the 'cameras designed for film' were also designed for interchangeable backs, you normally need an optical fibre transfer block, which is OK for Polaroids but definitely not OK for images that are going to be enlarged more than about 2x. You get 'dead fibres' (like 'dead pixels'). How do I know? As I say, a friend's company spent very large sums of money on finding out.
Cheers,
R.
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batterytypehah!
Lord of the Dings
(Pulls just-tossed catalogs vol. 2 and 3 from the bin)
Yup, sure looks like that:
Vol. 2 - (5) M2 bodies, (3) M3.
Vol. 3 - (3) M2, (8) M3.
Vol. 4 (current) - (8) M2, (10) M3
Too lazy to count the 4 5 6 and 7.
doubledan
Member
Prices of used Leica lenses are a problem not only for would-be buyers, but also for potential sellers: In this market, how in the world can anyone determine what a "fair" asking price is?
It's on my mind because I'm considering shifting more toward film MF plus a one-lens NEX or Ricoh setup, and reducing my RF holdings. In that case I would likely sell my 35 Summilux pre-asph, a late German (series 7) version. But lately, the few comparable pieces that I see for sale are all priced in the stratosphere, and even at that level there seems to be no consistency from one lens to the next.
Please note that this is not a back-door ad. If and when that time comes, I'll post the 'lux on the classifieds here. I'm just curious to get the forum's collective sense as to what would pass for sane in a crazy world, with this particular lens as an example.
Dan
It's on my mind because I'm considering shifting more toward film MF plus a one-lens NEX or Ricoh setup, and reducing my RF holdings. In that case I would likely sell my 35 Summilux pre-asph, a late German (series 7) version. But lately, the few comparable pieces that I see for sale are all priced in the stratosphere, and even at that level there seems to be no consistency from one lens to the next.
Please note that this is not a back-door ad. If and when that time comes, I'll post the 'lux on the classifieds here. I'm just curious to get the forum's collective sense as to what would pass for sane in a crazy world, with this particular lens as an example.
Dan
Tzelet
-
I guess that the supply bit is getting slimmer, also. Speaking for myself, I put a lot more thinking into getting rid of lenses now, than I did two or three years ago. If I sell something now, I make sure that it is a lens that I can do without. Buying them back will be all that much more expensive.
As for pricing: My way is to price them comparably low, and set my own rules. There are places I will not ship, and there are people I don't want to sell to. I know I take a small loss money wise, but in the end it takes the hassle out of a sale. Other than that, I prefer to do trades these days. My "investment" in Leica has more or less been stable for the last 18 months, and if I get rid of something it is to get something else, so trading has worked fine for me.
As for pricing: My way is to price them comparably low, and set my own rules. There are places I will not ship, and there are people I don't want to sell to. I know I take a small loss money wise, but in the end it takes the hassle out of a sale. Other than that, I prefer to do trades these days. My "investment" in Leica has more or less been stable for the last 18 months, and if I get rid of something it is to get something else, so trading has worked fine for me.
bobby_novatron
Photon Collector
I always try to buy gear at 'reasonable' prices by researching current trends and previous sale prices ... I know enough to not let emotion get the better of me. If I start obsessing about a particular lens or camera, I try to give myself time to cool down. Otherwise I ALWAYS end up paying too much, and I also contribute to the general inflationary trend.
As a seller, I never try to make a 'profit'. If I break even -- great. I sell at a small loss, I don't mind, as long as I know I'm selling to a decent buyer and the item will be going to a good home.
I'm a strong believer in buyer/seller karma. Pragmatically, I know that the general trend of prices has inexorably been rising, and my quaint notion of the marketplace is very quaint, indeed.
As a seller, I never try to make a 'profit'. If I break even -- great. I sell at a small loss, I don't mind, as long as I know I'm selling to a decent buyer and the item will be going to a good home.
I'm a strong believer in buyer/seller karma. Pragmatically, I know that the general trend of prices has inexorably been rising, and my quaint notion of the marketplace is very quaint, indeed.
mynikonf2
OEM
Lens MADNESS
Lens MADNESS
Just looking through the KEH catalog at some of the M lens prices and wondered if I picked up the comic section of the newspaper by mistake. How about a BGN grade chrome rigid Cron for $1079? or what about a chrome 35 Canadian Lux in BGN grade for $4299?? These are not Mint examples we're talking about here. How can you ever hope to build a kit with these kind of prices? :bang:
Lens MADNESS
Just looking through the KEH catalog at some of the M lens prices and wondered if I picked up the comic section of the newspaper by mistake. How about a BGN grade chrome rigid Cron for $1079? or what about a chrome 35 Canadian Lux in BGN grade for $4299?? These are not Mint examples we're talking about here. How can you ever hope to build a kit with these kind of prices? :bang:
Scheelings
Well-known
How come they are driving the market crazy, and in the same time, you can't sell there?
Or: it doesn't seem very logical that they are selling crap at very high prices and don't buy decent gear at fair prices...
They will eat 711 lunch boxes for months & scrimp and save on everything to buy a product that gives face. People want brand over there because that indicates wealth. A Chinese man without wealth will not find a wife. 118 male children to ever 100 female.
Everything is about image.
Or: it doesn't seem very logical that they are selling crap at very high prices and don't buy decent gear at fair prices...
They will eat 711 lunch boxes for months & scrimp and save on everything to buy a product that gives face. People want brand over there because that indicates wealth. A Chinese man without wealth will not find a wife. 118 male children to ever 100 female.
Everything is about image.
sanmich
Veteran
You want tell us that enough women in China are attracted to men because they have a Leica as a status sign?
How many do you think even know what a Leica is?
sanmich
Veteran
Roger
what's an optical fiber transfer block.
If I guess right from the name, it transfers the image from the focal plane to the sensor. How come you can't simply put a sensor in the place of film?
Scheelings
Well-known
You want tell us that enough women in China are attracted to men because they have a Leica as a status sign?
How many do you think even know what a Leica is?
There are enough people in China now with lots of money to seriously impact any market. It is now the world's largest car market...think of it from that perspective.
Another problem is inflation - Leica is a store of value! Chinese are also buying lots of gold - as the government is starting to put caps on housing (so how do you 'save').
Leica is not just an excellent method to store value - it is a luxury brand - thats what people want.
Even if people don't know what Leica is - how many looks do u get from people that see something which is beautiful and classic - something that is elegant rather than some huge clunky piece of plastic that shouts 'look at me!! look at me!'
A leica makes people look refined and sets them apart...
Roger Hicks
Veteran
Not enough room. You can make a block that is parallel sided and sits within the film rails: it just transfers a 24x36mm image backwards by whatever distance is needed to put a Polaroid back behind it. It's the only really expensive bit in a Forscher-patent Polaroid back. It doesn't need to be all that accurately located, because 99% of Polaroids are going to be looked at and thrown away: if they're reproduced, it's unlikely to be more than 2x.
A sensor is bigger than the actual light-sensitive area, and also needs to be located with extreme accuracy if any significant degree of enlargement is to be possible. Getting it in the right place in relation to the focal plane (i.e. closer to or further from the lens) is at least as difficult as getting it into the restricted area that was previously designed for a strip of film 35mm wide and a fraction of a millimetre thick.
Finally, 'dead' fibres are all but impossible to rule out completely: certainly, economically impossible. A 'dead' fibre won't show on a Polaroid (see above) but it will on film or on a sensor where significant enlargement is required as an option.
Cheers,
R.
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sanmich
Veteran
Thanks...........
Robin Harrison
aka Harrison Cronbi
That trasfer block...did it look something like the Nikon in this pic:
http://tokyocamerastyle.com/post/2922240764/shinjuku-mijonjus-hilariously-heavy-nikon
Does the 35mm frame get enlarged to cover the whole polaroid (presumably with a large loss in Exposure Index for the film)?