What's the real diff between a Voigtlander and a Leica?

[Ted Witcher]

who has a spl?
let's measure.

Actually, I do. If I can find it I will do a thorough A/B.

 

[back alley]

Actually, I do. If I can find it I will do a thorough A/B.

cool.
i can do the zi also, if anyone would like.

joe

 

[lifevicarious]

Bodies

Bodies

First off, you have to define what you mean by comparing Vogtlander to Leica. Do you means lenses, or just camera bodies?

I just mean the bodies. I can always use a Leica lens on a Voigtlander body. The body on will probably get beat up on my trip so I'd almost rather get the less expensive body, but not at the sacrifice of quality, and discreetness.

As was mentioned, size is more important the the volume. And compared to my 5D witha 24-70, both the M and the Voigt have the size beat hands down.

 

[Ted Witcher]

Go ahead, Joe, I can't find mine.

 

[troym]

I would actually say no. I just fired off my DSLR and then my R3a. The SLR has a different type of sound, with different components, and is however many ms longer, but I can't say that in terms of overall volume, one is quieter than the other. The Leica, however, is quieter than both, definitely.

Well, length matters. In my judgment, the main difference between the sound of an R3A and say a Leica M3 is that the M3 has a much shorter shutter fire sequence.

True, the M3's sound is pitched a little lower. But what impresses the most is that you hear a short "snuck" and that's it. With the R3A, you hear the sound of the double curtained shutter, which (to my ears) lasts longer.

It hardly sounds like cannon firing in the 1812 Overture, though, which is what some descriptions on the web would lead you to believe about the Voigtlander cameras. They're very quiet cameras, just not as quiet as a Leica (which in turn is not as quiet as many digicams).

 

[Stu W]

The Leica is meant to be infinitely and easily rebuildable. All other cameras are throw aways. A Leica can last forever. That way when I'm gone my kids will probably sell mine for $5 at a yard sale.

 

[tedwhite]

Hey, Ted Wichter. Was that a misprint or do you really feel that the the Bessa is more "painful and time-consuming to load" than a Leica?

I find the Bessa as easy to load as any SLR. Takes seconds. In fact when you open one up it looks exactly the same as the SLR's. On the other hand, Leica, being a bottom-loader, I find very fiddly and in my opinion takes much longer to load.

But then, I've only owned one Leica (an M3) and have the occasional use of a friend's M2. Perhaps practice is the key?

Ted

 

[troym]

The Leica is meant to be infinitely and easily rebuildable. All other cameras are throw aways. A Leica can last forever. That way when I'm gone my kids will probably sell mine for $5 at a yard sale.

Well, anything can last forever if you spend enough money on it. I don't think there's anything special about Leicas in that respect.

What really sets Leica apart is that the company tends to support its products (with service and spare parts) long after most other companies stop doing so.

I have a 15 year old Pentax that I sent out for repairs. Pentax no longer supports the camera, and parts are scarce. If the camera breaks again in the next few years, I'll probably have to give it a quiet burial or spend *a lot* of money to have new parts made. Just not worth it.

 

[ghost]

What really sets Leica apart is that the company tends to support its products (with service and spare parts) long after most other companies stop doing so.

because they've been making essentially the same camera for 50 years.

 

[back alley]

Go ahead, Joe, I can't find mine.

i don't have a leica or a cv though.

(other than the cl)

 

[phototone]

Hey, Ted Wichter. Was that a misprint or do you really feel that the the Bessa is more "painful and time-consuming to load" than a Leica?

I find the Bessa as easy to load as any SLR. Takes seconds. In fact when you open one up it looks exactly the same as the SLR's. On the other hand, Leica, being a bottom-loader, I find very fiddly and in my opinion takes much longer to load.

But then, I've only owned one Leica (an M3) and have the occasional use of a friend's M2. Perhaps practice is the key?

Ted

ACTUALLY I find the newer "M" cameras that have the built-in take up, that has slots you slide the film into as you slide the film down into the camera, to be as fast as a "swing-open-the-back" type of camera after just a little practice.
This would be all "M" cameras from M4 to present. Of course, if you shoot fast for a living, you have a second camera and an assistant to change the film, and always have a freshly loaded camera ready for you. You just switch out as you use each roll of film up. In this situation, it doesn't matter how fast it takes, as you can irritate your assistant into learning to do it fast.

Thats the solution, everyone here get a non-paid assistant to assist for the experience. ha ha.

 

[Rich Silfver]

I'm expecting some crazed responses here, but aside from build quality and shutter noise, is there a major difference in picture quality between the two? Let's say the difference between a R3A and a M7. Besides the sheer 'feel' of a Leica, what is the extra 3K going to get me?

In my opinion, Leica has the better build quality and yes, the shutter sound is more subtle/pleasant on the Leica. In addition to that I much prefer the look and feel of the Leica (I'm one of 'those' that find the Bessa's straight out ugly). The feel, look, buildquality, etc makes me more inclined to bring the camera with me - and use it. That alone was worth the price difference for me (note: I ended up buying an M3 - not an M7).

Note: The reasoning above is purely subjective and also based on a hobbyist/amateur's use and need.

 

[hth]

I would say that the fear of loading a Leica is fueled by people who have not done it, or tried it just a couple of times. It is really very simple and extremely safe. I prefer to load any of my Leica M2 or M4 to my Bessa, which simply feels unsafe. The M2 is a bit fiddly and takes some time, but it is very safe, and I rather take that than anything that feels unsafe.

Maybe I on the other hand have not used my Bessa enough (about 40 rolls)?

If loading the camera is a key issue, consider a Hexar RF, it just does not get any easier.

/Håkan

Hey, Ted Wichter. Was that a misprint or do you really feel that the the Bessa is more "painful and time-consuming to load" than a Leica?

I find the Bessa as easy to load as any SLR. Takes seconds. In fact when you open one up it looks exactly the same as the SLR's. On the other hand, Leica, being a bottom-loader, I find very fiddly and in my opinion takes much longer to load.

But then, I've only owned one Leica (an M3) and have the occasional use of a friend's M2. Perhaps practice is the key?

Ted

 

[Ted Witcher]

Hey, Ted Wichter. Was that a misprint or do you really feel that the the Bessa is more "painful and time-consuming to load" than a Leica?

I find the Bessa as easy to load as any SLR. Takes seconds. In fact when you open one up it looks exactly the same as the SLR's. On the other hand, Leica, being a bottom-loader, I find very fiddly and in my opinion takes much longer to load.

But then, I've only owned one Leica (an M3) and have the occasional use of a friend's M2. Perhaps practice is the key?

Ted

We're diametrically opposed on this issue. The Bessa, to me, is fiddly... you think you have an advantage, it being a swing-door affair, but it's mitigated by that silly rewind knob/switch, which is tricky to manipulate with one hand. Then you actually have to thread the leader into the take-up slot as well as seat the sprocket holes properly on the teeth. None of this is required with the Leica, only the (minor) inconvenience of having a part that fully detaches. No worrying about take-up spool or seating the film or anything. Stick the film in the petals and put the baseplate back on. Mission accomplished. Plus, the Bessa's shutter release invariably sticks when I'm trying to wind on. Blah.

 

[Tarzak]

It's quieter then a SLR though isn't it?

It's (Bessa R) much louder than my Oly OM1.

 

[Sparrow]

If they were cars, the Voigtlander would be a Toyota, and the Leica a Mercedes’. The Toyota makes more sense but you would rather be seen in the Merc😀

 

[BrianPhotog]

It's (Bessa R) much louder than my Oly OM1.

Both my R2 and R2a are quieter then my FM3a. 🙂

 

[Andrew Sowerby]

I've never used a Leica and the only Bessa I own is an L so I won't attempt to compare the two but I just wanted to add:

If you're considering a camera for your trip and you're interested in mostly shooting 35-40mm lenses perhaps you should consider a compact RF like a Canonet or a Yashica. They've got good lenses and AE. The Canonet is very quiet. And best of all they're cheap. You could buy two (or three!) of the same model and load each with different film.

 

[Larss]

Interesting reading! I have reopend my darkroom (after 3 years with DSLR (heavey proffesionel aquipment)) after I got my Bessa R2A and I´m so pleased that I´m consitering to bay a Leica MP and shot Tri-X for my own sake forever!

I like to make real pictures thats not manipuleated in any way or coud be, whats on the negativ coms on the final picture!

But then I think when Leica is the last cameraproducer that makes cameras for films now makes digital cameras how long can I then bay films? And why spend a lot of money on somthing that I maby only can use for maby 5 years and then agein must spend a lot for a DRF?

I can se what lifevicarious means, I have the Bessa and thats a god camera for the next maby ten years but I woud like to shout black and white the next 35 to 45 years with a camera thats not shoud be replaesed in my lifetime!

I must think more about it and see whats comes at the Photokina in Köln!

 

[jaapv]

But then I think when Leica is the last cameraproducer that makes cameras for films

😕 Zeiss Ikon?? Cosina/Voigtländer Bessa?

=Larss]I like to make real pictures thats not manipuleated in any way or coud be, whats on the negativ coms on the final picture!

I would dispute that: contrast management, cropping, burning, dodging, unsharp mask, etc. are all manipulations! (but I see what you mean, it is easier and one can take it further in Photoshop 🙂)