When was this J-8 made?

tho60

tho60

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I show you a peculiar J-8 lens fitted on a Zorki-1. Its serial number 017865. The camera is from 1951-52. The Zorki manual indicates that there were Zorki-1s with J-8 or even J-3 lenses, but these ones beared Cyrillic letters in both the lens and the camera. In addition, the manual shows an other type of J-8 fitted on the camera, with non-rotating front element.

I would have some questions:
1. In your opinion, when was this J-8 made?
2. Was the camera fitted with that particular lens, or the lens was replaced later?
 

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The J-8 is an export version, note the lettering. The lens is most likely late 60s, early 70s- judging by the design of the focus module. It is single-helical, chrome. The early 1950s lens had a double-helical and a focus Tab.

All of the J-8's that I have seen are good.

The lens is later than the camera.
 
See? That's why we pay Sweeney the big bucks around here. Interesting stuff [to me, anyway].

So double-helical came first, in the '50s? Then single-helical in late '60s & on?

Thanks Brian. And thanks for sharing your lens, tho60!
 
Hi,

It's interesting (to me but the old git's often only firing on 5 cylinders) that the Zorki 1 instruction manual shows the body with a Jupiter 8 on it. I thought they would all be the Elmar copy or else the later Industar-22.

Any comments anyone?

Regards, David
 
I agree, David H. Don't know that I've ever seen one for sale w/ lens other than a collapsible. At the same time, I never assume the lens attached is the original.

And for sure, I have not seen it all.
 
David Hughes said:
Hi,

It's interesting (to me but the old git's often only firing on 5 cylinders) that the Zorki 1 instruction manual shows the body with a Jupiter 8 on it. I thought they would all be the Elmar copy or else the later Industar-22.

Any comments anyone?

Regards, David
Click to expand...

I think that the manual describes alternative lenses that are available. The Jupiter-3 is also shown. The front cover shows the camera with the I22.
 
Hmmm, thanks folks.

Now I'm wondering what date is on the manual as the overlap of the Zorki 1's production run and the Jupiter-8 is very small. You wonder why they'd show it at the end of the run...

Well, we live and learn (or get more baffled in my case).

Regards, David
 
David Hughes said:
Now I'm wondering what date is on the manual as the overlap of the Zorki 1's production run and the Jupiter-8 is very small. You wonder why they'd show it at the end of the run...
Click to expand...

1953 through 1956 is not a small overlap, and it likely covers tens of thousands of bodies and lenses.
 
rxmd said:
1953 through 1956 is not a small overlap, and it likely covers tens of thousands of bodies and lenses.
Click to expand...

Hi,

The real problem is that I don't know which, out of all the dates I've seen, read and been told, to trust. Some say the body wasn't being made when the lens was, f'instance. And that the gap was enormous.

It's like the "П" on lenses: I'd expect it on 1945/46 lenses but have seen it on 1955/56 ones.

But I was surprised that, coming to the end of the Zorki 1's run they did a new instruction manual. Hence my question about it's date.

Regards, David
 
That J-8 looks like the one that came on a 1968 Zorki 4 camera that was given to me.
I kept the lens but the camera body was given away to someone to use with their J-12 wide angle lens.
 
David Hughes said:
But I was surprised that, coming to the end of the Zorki 1's run they did a new instruction manual. Hence my question about it's date.
Click to expand...

Not surprising, really. 1955-56 was the beginning of the Khrushchev thaw, when the Soviet economy switched towards consumer products and had a positively brilliant decade. (Read "Red Plenty" by Francis Spufford if you want a good literary impression.) It's not surprising that they'd redo some of their end-user documentation at that point.
 
I accept your opinion, but how about this peculiar serial number? The first two digits should indicate the year of production. This is not the case.
 
tho60 said:
I accept your opinion, but how about this peculiar serial number? The first two digits should indicate the year of production. This is not the case.
Click to expand...

KMZ must have tried a different serial numbering scheme from the mid 60s to the early 1970s for some unfathomable reason as my own J8 of that style has that similar serial number that does not reflect the year of manufacture by the first two digits of its serial number.
 
David Hughes said:
Hmmm, thanks folks.

Now I'm wondering what date is on the manual as the overlap of the Zorki 1's production run and the Jupiter-8 is very small. You wonder why they'd show it at the end of the run...

Well, we live and learn (or get more baffled in my case).

Regards, David
Click to expand...

I don't know what you mean by the 'end of the run'. According to Princelle the Zorki-1 was made from 1950-1956. More were made in 1955 than in any other year. The same source states that production of the J8 started in 1950 and the J3 in 1951.
 
rxmd said:
Not surprising, really. 1955-56 was the beginning of the Khrushchev thaw, when the Soviet economy switched towards consumer products and had a positively brilliant decade. (Read "Red Plenty" by Francis Spufford if you want a good literary impression.) It's not surprising that they'd redo some of their end-user documentation at that point.
Click to expand...
Hi,

Thanks for that info. So now I wonder if there's any export instruction manuals about in English (or even American English if desperate).

Regards, David
 
rxmd said:
Of course:
http://www.butkus.org/chinon/russian/zorki/zorki.htm
Click to expand...

Hi,

Many thanks. It's interesting but a bit worrying.

If it was original, then I wonder about the statement "A total of 835502 Zorki cameras were produced." This could only be said with hindsight. Also the style (printing, grammar & punctuation) and typeface look wrong for that period of USSR publications.

The other point is that I have my doubts about all the dates given on the internet. I classify them with "It's not about oil", "USSR lens and cameras are poor quality" and (worst of all) " it's easy to repair or adjust you Leica/FED/Zorki"... I hope I don't have to explain that!

I'm sorry to be so fussy but in the last 20 years plus since I retired I've been doing a lot of research into thing that interest me and, having spent a lot of time and pension money, I have my doubts about a lot of things I read about cameras.

Alas, my chances of finding the original paper work from all the factories and someone used to this research and English and Russian speaking are low.

I guess Ill have to learn Russian and start again...

Regards, David
 
David Hughes said:
Many thanks. It's interesting but a bit worrying.

If it was original, then I wonder about the statement "A total of 835502 Zorki cameras were produced." This could only be said with hindsight. Also the style (printing, grammar & punctuation) and typeface look wrong for that period of USSR publications.
Click to expand...

It's clearly not an original manual.

Alas, my chances of finding the original paper work from all the factories and someone used to this research and English and Russian speaking are low.
Click to expand...

I have spent a long time working in post-Soviet archives and I think you can pretty much forget about that unless you are ready to invest a lot of time, in particular if you don't speak Russian yourself.
 
Jupiter-3 production began in 1950, although the original lenses marked as Jupiter-3's looked more like ZK Sonnars. Hard to tell from the small illustration, but the aperture ring looks like a ZK ring- no ridged edge.
 
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