Ben Z
Veteran
Craig M said:
At that price it'd have to be, for me. I'd have to sell the rest of my lenses to get one. I shot with one, alongside my 50 non-ASPH Lux. The only thing I would lug around a 50/1.4 for would be handheld shots on fast film in very low light, and that's how I compared them. I couldn't discern any difference. No doubt, on a tripod with slow slide film the ASPH would pull out ahead. But for that kind of shooting, and that kind of money, I can (and in fact, did) buy a Hasselblad with a couple film backs and 3 lenses, and the results from teh Zeiss glass on a 6x6 tranny IMO give me more bang for the buck than any lens could possibly do with 35mm. Just my opninion, nothing against anyone who has the ASPH lens.
cme4brain
Established
I am a Voigtlander Bessa R3a owner with five Voigtlander lenses. I am curious about you Leica fanatics. I wonder when you all will stop desperately trying to justify the price gouging of a no-longer German-made camera when it is compared to the likes of Voigtlander or the upcomming Zeiss bodies and lenses? I can easily afford Leica and acknowledge that the camera body is somewhat better made, but if my Bessa breaks (has taken great abuse so far), I can buy SIX of them for the price of one Leica body! And the Voigtlander lenses are so close in resolution/color/contrast to Leica (IMHO) that there is no way the incredible price for Leica equipment is justified? Where are the objective comparison studies between the two lenses (Voigt and Leica)? I will bet my car payment that if Iwere to take a pix with my Bessa body and any of my Voigt lenses, then take the exact same pix with an analogous Leica lens (same exposure, same body or use a Leica body) and professionally process the picture, that professional photographers could NOT tell the difference consistently in real world picture taking. I do acknowledge that perhaps one Leica lens can resolve 125 lines/mm but I say that the Voigts can resolve 110 lines/mm. Can anyone tell that difference on anything other than a test bench? Certainly NOT in real world pictures, and certainly not enough to justify the $2900 price for a Leica lens when a Voigt similar lens is $400. You guys have all those leica lenses- let's see someone put it to a test and objectively compare real world photos taken with Leica, Voigt, and/or Zeiss lenses, and see what happens. I will bet you guys start crying when you realize that Voigtlander is eating Leica's lunch :bang: . I am taking the same quality pix (for all that anyone cares) that you are, and have the satisfaction that I am not being robbed by Leica. As a physician, all my buddies tell me how great their $$$ Mercedes are (I have owned two Benzes, two BMW's, two Volvo's) as they are being FIXED IN THE SHOP and my lexuses and I just keep driving past them. Their sad devotion to the "Benz mystique" keeps the Benz dealers happy and LAUGING at them for plopping down good money for a notably beautiful product, but not worth the price, and the Japanese do it better.
Any OBJECTIVE thoughts? Anyone willing to do a fair comparision?
Any OBJECTIVE thoughts? Anyone willing to do a fair comparision?
Photar
Down under
Stay calm, cme4brain, no reason to :bang:
Just acknowledge that other people have other preferences - for whatever reason.
Just acknowledge that other people have other preferences - for whatever reason.
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JoNL said:
I just reread this thread. The original post asks for a comparison of 3 Leica lenses. The conversation has included a couple recommendations of the new Zeiss ZM 50mm lens. A reasonable suggestion of the excellent CV Nokton would also be appropriate.
Yes, stay calm, and have a look around at what everyone else has stated here to see some real objective opinions.
Photar
Down under
I just would like to add which 50 I got ... 10 minutes ago: A 1962 DR-Summicron with Eyes, caps, and original box (!), in almost mint condition. I discovered it by chance immediately it went for sale (for a once in a life-time price, I might add) 
If you meet a guy with a big smile in these days ... it's me!
If you meet a guy with a big smile in these days ... it's me!
vol72
Established
cme4brain, value is what is perceived by the owner/user. You obviously take great delight in using inferior products that cost less. You position is that the equipment is only slightly inferior and that you have realized a substantial savings in your purchases. Many people appreciate certain things for what they are, as much as for what they effect - and they will pay for the difference in quality. Leica cameras are collected by many and never used because the collector esteems the equipment for what he perceives it to be, without consideration for its photographic use.
You inflate your own ego by denigrating the choices of others. How dare they not embrace your obvious wisdom? Yet, you can be faulted by your own logic. Why not purchase a Toyota instead of a Lexus? Same company, slightly inferior quality (maybe), and you can save $$$? Better yet, buy a used Toyota ( since new vehicles depreciate 20% as soon as you drive them off the lot ) and still drive many miles, saving even more $$$. The point is: what you do with your $ is your business; what I do with my $ is my business. If you believe you are smarter than everbody else, you are entitled to your opinion. Just don't feed me your sh-t and tell me it is caviar.
You inflate your own ego by denigrating the choices of others. How dare they not embrace your obvious wisdom? Yet, you can be faulted by your own logic. Why not purchase a Toyota instead of a Lexus? Same company, slightly inferior quality (maybe), and you can save $$$? Better yet, buy a used Toyota ( since new vehicles depreciate 20% as soon as you drive them off the lot ) and still drive many miles, saving even more $$$. The point is: what you do with your $ is your business; what I do with my $ is my business. If you believe you are smarter than everbody else, you are entitled to your opinion. Just don't feed me your sh-t and tell me it is caviar.
awilder
Alan Wilder
These are some comparison shots http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00D3fJ for cme4brain although most of you have probably seen them already. They may not be "real world" but they do partly demonstrate some of what you get for the extra money with the 50/1.4 aspheric, i.e. central resolution far beyond that of the ZM Planar and equal to the Summicron (both at f'2.8) but at a full stop wider.
FrankS
Registered User
"Yet, you can be faulted by your own logic. Why not purchase a Toyota instead of a Lexus? Same company, slightly inferior quality (maybe), and you can save $$$? Better yet, buy a used Toyota ( since new vehicles depreciate 20% as soon as you drive them off the lot ) and still drive many miles, saving even more $$$. The point is: what you do with your $ is your business; what I do with my $ is my business."
Well said. This would be pretty hard to argue against, IMO.
Well said. This would be pretty hard to argue against, IMO.
back alley
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cme4brain said:
dear doc,
i assume a modicum of intelligence seeing as you're a doc - even though half of the graduating class graduated in the bottom half...
i'll say this once -
this is a friggin' photo forum not a debating society!
we come here to talk gear, to have a good time and show off a photo or 2.
i didn't wake this morning with the intention of entertaining you by proving anything to you!
if you hear music dance with yourself but don't get pissed off if i decline your not so gracious invite.
your arrogance is annoying.
vol72 said:
vol, you have to relax too. CV stuff inferior? I don't think so, it is just different. Man we all have to get this through our heads, IT IS JUST DIFFERENT.
So Planar, what lens are you going to get?
jaap
Jaap
I think the most obvious difference between voigtlander versus zeiss leica is mechanical build quality. The voightlander are mechanical a bit less. I think optical Zeiss has the best cards. But the difference between these lenses when stopped down 2 a 3 stops are minimal. The way to achieve the optical performance different from the manufacturs Voigtlander and Leica use a lot of asp. elements were Zeiss uses clasical top design with the newest formulas and techonlogy. As tool for the photgrapher I think Leica is a bit to expensive. It's a sign that leica gear is always les used by professionals.
R
ray_g
Guest
Joe,
As you had said previously, the site it growing at a tremendous pace, and the membership is growing more and more, shall we say, "diverse." If I were you, I'd ask for a raise.
As you had said previously, the site it growing at a tremendous pace, and the membership is growing more and more, shall we say, "diverse." If I were you, I'd ask for a raise.
peter_n
Veteran
Could someone please explain to me what is it about camera gear/photography that makes apparently well-educated and articulate people so childish?
Does this kind of behavior also occur on other special-interest forums as well?
Does this kind of behavior also occur on other special-interest forums as well?
Graham Line
Well-known
This, with a few obvious exceptions, is a really well-behaved forum. Log into a forum on any sort of audio gear, BMWs or politics if you want some real elemental animalism.
What was the question?
Oh. 50s.
Any post-1965 Summicron or Elmar, M-Hexanon or Sonnar is more lens than most people, papers and films can take advantage of.
What was the question?
Oh. 50s.
Any post-1965 Summicron or Elmar, M-Hexanon or Sonnar is more lens than most people, papers and films can take advantage of.
back alley
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peter_n said:
oh yeah!
check out some of the audio/video sites.
i got so fed up with the last audio site i was on that i just left it...and came here.
it's one of the reasons i try to maintain the peace here.
peter_n
Veteran
And you do a great job Joe! How's the old ticker? It doesn't need this kind of silliness...
Thanks for educating me about other forums. Think I'll stick to photography...
Thanks for educating me about other forums. Think I'll stick to photography...
back alley
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ticker seems ok, more testing this coming week.
that last audio site turned too many posts in political statements, too much venom directed at people.
i went there for audio speak and to learn nd maybe laugh a bit.
same here - i come here for photo speak, cause my friends can take so much befor bursting and really most of them do not understand the language.
i wish folks could keep that one thing in mind - - we are a photo/gear forum and the rest (subject wise) can go elsewhere.
and there is no place for downright hostility here, none!
except for me possibly...
that last audio site turned too many posts in political statements, too much venom directed at people.
i went there for audio speak and to learn nd maybe laugh a bit.
same here - i come here for photo speak, cause my friends can take so much befor bursting and really most of them do not understand the language.
i wish folks could keep that one thing in mind - - we are a photo/gear forum and the rest (subject wise) can go elsewhere.
and there is no place for downright hostility here, none!
except for me possibly...
Stephanie Brim
Mental Experimental.
Group Hug! Joe In The Middle!