Which film window?...missing viewfinder piece?

[SilverFarm]

Hello,

I was out this afternoon in -25 C putting a first roll of film through my newly acquired Voightlander Bessa. It was sunny when I left the house and loaded a roll of FP4.Turned cloudy and dull by the time I reached a local ice fishing stretch of river I wanted to shoot.

This is my first folder and I am not sure which window to use for 6x9 exposures.
I used the upper window for 6 shots so far.
Is this correct?

Also, I used the waist level finder for composing. The rear flipup piece of the optical finder is missing.
Can anyone advise me where I can get a replacement piece?

Included a couple pics for reference.

Thanks for your reply.

Regards,

 

[pschauss]

If the upper window is clossest to the takup spool that is correct. In any event, as long as you continue to use the same window for the remainder of the roll your pictures will be spaced evenly although you may loose the first half of the first frame.

 

[Solinar]

If the upper window is clossest to the takup spool that is correct. In any event, as long as you continue to use the same window for the remainder of the roll your pictures will be spaced evenly although you may loose the first half of the first frame.

Are you sure about that?? - On both my 6x9 Bessa II and my Agfa Records the red window is the far side of the rear door from the winder.

 

[batterytypehah!]

Andrew is right, use the window closest to the supply spool (i.e. the bottom one in your pic). The second window, by the DoF scale, is for 6x4.5.

In fact, if you don't have the 6x4.5 mask installed, the second window should close automatically. Sounds like that isn't working on yours anymore. Next time you have the camera open, look for a tiny lever near the bottom left corner of the film pressure plate and see if you can make it move to swing the window cover.

Viewfinder: I'm afraid a parts camera would be your only option. There's optical glass in that piece, so you can't just make a mask.

 

[Mcary]

Are you sure about that?? - On both my 6x9 Bessa II and my Agfa Records the red window is the far side of the rear door from the winder.

The Bessa I 6x9 I have also works the same way as your Bessa II and Agfa. I beleive the window that's nearest to the take up spool is for shooting 645 using an insert.

 

[FallisPhoto]

Hello,

I was out this afternoon in -25 C putting a first roll of film through my newly acquired Voightlander Bessa. It was sunny when I left the house and loaded a roll of FP4.Turned cloudy and dull by the time I reached a local ice fishing stretch of river I wanted to shoot.

This is my first folder and I am not sure which window to use for 6x9 exposures.
I used the upper window for 6 shots so far.
Is this correct?

Also, I used the waist level finder for composing. The rear flipup piece of the optical finder is missing.
Can anyone advise me where I can get a replacement piece?

Included a couple pics for reference.

Thanks for your reply.

Regards,

Sorry, but everyone else is a little bit off on what they've told you, so far. If you look at the two windows, you will see that they are in line with one another, so as you advance the film, they will show the same set of numbers, twice (first in the lower window and then again in the upper window). The film's backing paper shows a series of numbers, in several rows, and the different rows are for different formats. However, this camera only uses one set of numbers, the row for 6x9. You can use either window for 6x9, as long as you use it consistently. The second (upper) window is really intended for use with a 645 film mask. The procedure for shooting 645 format, with that mask installed, is to advance the film until the 1 appears in the lower window, shoot your photo, then advance it until the 1 appears in the upper window, shoot another photo, then advance the film until the 2 appears in the lower window, shoot, then advance the film until the 2 appears in the upper window, shoot -- and so on. To shoot 6x9, without the mask, you'd advance the film until the number 1 appears in either one of the windows, shoot your photo, advance the film until the number 2 appears in the same window, shoot another photo, and etcetera.

 

[batterytypehah!]

I wouldn't make a habit of that. As Peter has pointed out before, you risk losing part of a frame (by placing your last exposure too close to the end of the film). Else there would be no need for the second window at all.

 

[batterytypehah!]

Else there would be no need for the second window at all.

OK, please forget I ever said that. 😱 Of course you need two windows for 6x4.5.

I maintain you need to use the correct window to get the full number of frames per roll. Just checked some recent strips of Provia (developed at Fuji) and there was less than an inch of "meat" after the last frame.

 

[FallisPhoto]

OK, please forget I ever said that. 😱 Of course you need two windows for 6x4.5.

I maintain you need to use the correct window to get the full number of frames per roll. Just checked some recent strips of Provia (developed at Fuji) and there was less than an inch of "meat" after the last frame.

But how much "meat" are you going to have at the other end if you shoot at the first window? The second window is more like the window placement you'd get with a one-window 6x9, and yet there is always some undeveloped film at the start of the roll. It will work with either window.

 

[batterytypehah!]

But how much "meat" are you going to have at the other end if you shoot at the first window? The second window is more like the window placement you'd get with a one-window 6x9, and yet there is always some undeveloped film at the start of the roll. It will work with either window.

I exposed that film in a one format, one window camera (Zeiss Nettar 515/2) but it doesn't even matter, since the one window on the Nettar is in the same position as the 6x9 window on the Zweiformat Bessa. (By the way, I have another dedicated 6x9 - Agfa Billy Record - and another two-format - Wirgin. Both of them also have the 6x9 window close to the supply spool.)

Now, if I'd used the Bessa and the 6x4.5 window, everything would be fine until the last frame. The frames would all be offset by 4.5cm towards the end of the roll. Given I only have about a 1 inch (2.5cm) safe margin, I'd have lost 2cm off the last frame.

Wanna see a scan?

 

[SilverFarm]

Thanks again to all who replied.

I will finish shooting the roll as I have with using the window nearest the take-up spool.

I'll post how it turned out.

In regards to the missing rear piece/mask of the finder.
Is it for certian that there was an actual glass insert as part of that piece?
The online reference photo I saw didn't show such.

Regards,

 

[FallisPhoto]

I exposed that film in a one format, one window camera (Zeiss Nettar 515/2) but it doesn't even matter, since the one window on the Nettar is in the same position as the 6x9 window on the Zweiformat Bessa. (By the way, I have another dedicated 6x9 - Agfa Billy Record - and another two-format - Wirgin. Both of them also have the 6x9 window close to the supply spool.)

Now, if I'd used the Bessa and the 6x4.5 window, everything would be fine until the last frame. The frames would all be offset by 4.5cm towards the end of the roll. Given I only have about a 1 inch (2.5cm) safe margin, I'd have lost 2cm off the last frame.

Wanna see a scan?

Well, I have about 10 6x9 cameras and some of them have the window pretty close to the center of the camera, as appears to be the case with the OP's second window.

 

[batterytypehah!]

In regards to the missing rear piece/mask of the finder.
Is it for certian that there was an actual glass insert as part of that piece?
The online reference photo I saw didn't show such.

I'm afraid yes. I have the camera in front of me. Also, if you look through what remains of the finder on yours, with the camera in front of your nose as intended, the view will be blurred. A simple mask would not change that. It needs a second lens.

AFAIK, those fold-up finders either have no glass at all, or glass in both pieces. Optical glass in only one part would simply act like prescription glasses, i.e. you get blurred vision (unless it happens to be your own prescription strength and you take your glasses off).

That said, it shouldn't be too hard to replicate that piece, if you don't want to wait/shell out for a parts camera. I could provide you with the measurements from mine, including the focal length.

If it were mine, I'd cannibalize a single-use camera for usable "glass" (plastic, of course) inserts. One could even use the whole finder from one -- or from any 35mm camera, really. The aspect ratio is the same. One might have to mask the margins, if it's a wider than normal lens. Looks would be "unique" and the nifty fold-up action would be lost, though.

Rambling on... If I could bear to sacrifice one of my sixties Voigtländers, now those were nice finders. Big, bright, 1:1 view. And they're one cemented block of glass that comes right out.

 

[batterytypehah!]

Just to clarify about losing part of a frame: It's not that the film strip isn't long enough. The problem is that part of it gets exposed during commercial processing. If you develop your own, in the dark through all steps (or if you know for sure that your lab operates that way), you don't have to worry about it.

Fuji apparently processes in machines under daylight. So, as they feed the end of the film (which is the first to come off the exposed roll) into the processor, it gets exposed until they slam the cover shut. On the uncut rolls I still have, the film got exposed to within one inch of the last frame.

Can't know for sure how Fuji works, of course, but it explains what I see.

 

[sevo]

Just to clarify about losing part of a frame: It's not that the film strip isn't long enough. The problem is that part of it gets exposed during commercial processing.

No commercial processing I have ever dealt with in the past thirty years has exposed a single inch of leader or trailer - film always gets threaded in a completely dark darkroom or glove box. The trailing and leading parts specified to be blank will however frequently be glued/welded to the next strip. It would be hard to expose only bits of a 120 film, too, as it does not come in a cartridge.

 

[batterytypehah!]

No commercial processing I have ever dealt with in the past thirty years has exposed a single inch of leader or trailer - film always gets threaded in a completely dark darkroom or glove box. The trailing and leading parts specified to be blank will however frequently be glued/welded to the next strip. It would be hard to expose only bits of a 120 film, too, as it does not come in a cartridge.

I used to process imagesetter films (in a different life, almost) and that's damn well done in daylight. You feed the end of the film into the rollers of the processor and once it grabs, you have a few seconds to close the thing up.

Again, I don't know what precisely they do at Fuji but I know what I see. The very end is exposed (clear), then about an inch unexposed (black), then my last frame.

 

[Sparrow]

You should only see the one number, adding the 6x4.5 mask switches it to the other window, ignore that bit of rubber I was fitting a light seal when I took that photo.

There is a lens in the finder, if you zoom in on the large version of this shot you can just about see it