Which is sharper at 2.8, 35mm Color Skopar or Nokton 35 1.4?

[KM-25]

As the headline implies, I am wondering which is the sharper lens at 2.8. I have the Skopar and it is truly stellar even wide open. But given the Nokton Classic is only a tiny bit bigger I am wondering how it stacks up at 2.8?

If the Nokton 35mm 1.4 at 2.8 is pretty close to the 35mm 2.5 Color Skopar at the same setting, I might be inclined to move to the Nokton. Just working through ideas, this is for my M3 where my 50 Lux Asph is the primary lens...

I also maybe feel like leaving well enough alone as the focus on the Skopar is spot on with no shift while the Nokton could need adjustments depending on the sample. It's a tough call, the character of the Nokton wide open and the 1-2/3rd gain in speed is an attractive proposition..like the 50, I only need one 35...

 

[Daan]

I've had the color skopar 35mm for around 3-4 years now and sometimes think about switching to a faster lens too. It's just that my skopar is a really good lens, even compared to my modern 50mm from leica. I did own the 40mm nokton briefly. The nokton was inferior to my skopar but it also had a massive wobble so that probably didn't help.

I think i would only trade my skopar for a 35mm summicron but seeing as that is not going to happen, i'm stuck with the skopar. Which is not really a bad place to be.

 

[slidesandthecity]

I do not own any of the lenses in question, but someone else does/did and posted a comparison here

 

[KM-25]

I do not own any of the lenses in question, but someone else does/did and posted a comparison here

I saw that too, his Nokton sample is impressive but his pancake Skopar is a total dud.

My Skopar which is the older type with the tab, blows his away...

 

[Lss]

I see no problem with my Nokton, it is plenty sharp at 2.8. But I have never used the Skopar, and therefore cannot make any comparison.

 

[anjoca76]

Tough call. I love my skopar 35. Mine is LTM with the tab. It's an incredible lens, and at the price point I don't see how one could do better. I find it to be plenty sharp at 2.8, but maybe I'm not as picky as others.

 

[KM-25]

Tough call. I love my skopar 35. Mine is LTM with the tab. It's an incredible lens, and at the price point I don't see how one could do better. I find it to be plenty sharp at 2.8, but maybe I'm not as picky as others.

No doubt, I don't doubt the Skopar but rather the Nokton at 2.8. If I do decide to give the Nokton a try it will be from Cameraquest as Stephen allows a 30 day return policy.

 

[jsrockit]

The issue I see is that the Nokton is known for focus shift... and focus shift is prevalent between f/1.4 and f/4. I know film masks this somewhat, but unless the optimal point on the Nokton happens to be 2.8 (where the RF matches the lens), then I would imagine the Skopar is the better option. It always was on my M8 and M9.

 

[KM-25]

The issue I see is that the Nokton is known for focus shift... and focus shift is prevalent between f/1.4 and f/4. I know film masks this somewhat, but unless the optimal point on the Nokton happens to be 2.8 (where the RF matches the lens), then I would imagine the Skopar is the better option. It always was on my M8 and M9.

Thanks for the reminder, I went through that with the 50 Sonnar C, it was optimized for 2.8, might have kept it if it were optimized for 1.5.

I dunno, since I use a 35 on my M3 about 10% of the time, maybe it just makes more sense to leave well enough alone and stick with what works and that is the Skopar. It's tiny, sharp as heck and not terribly slow in a lot of light considering I rarely use slower than 400 speed film.

More comments are welcome....

 

[Lss]

The issue I see is that the Nokton is known for focus shift... and focus shift is prevalent between f/1.4 and f/4.

Which for general photography matters very little in my experience. The point is that you need to know the lens and understand how it behaves.

The test that was posted earlier in the thread gives some idea about Nokton performance. Still, I suppose anyone shooting brick walls should probably focus bracket a lens that is known to exhibit significant focus shift. Anyone else should just know their lens. Depending on the aperture and focus distance, you may want to compensate for the shift. It's hardly an exact science, but it is a workable solution.

 

[KM-25]

Which for general photography matters very little in my experience. The point is that you need to know the lens and understand how it behaves.

The test that was posted earlier in the thread gives some idea about Nokton performance. Still, I suppose anyone shooting brick walls should probably focus bracket a lens that is known to exhibit significant focus shift. Anyone else should just know their lens. Depending on the aperture and focus distance, you may want to compensate for the shift. It's hardly an exact science, but it is a workable solution.

I have to disagree, even after carefully establishing the correction for my C Sonnar 50 I still lost key shots in several cases that were impossible to reshoot. In considering how I need to work, fast and accurate, focus shift is a deal breaker, I can't print, sell or publish photos in which the subject is out of focus.

I had forgot about the reports of focus shift with this lens, I won't be buying it solely because of that, can't afford to take the risk.

 

[Takkun]

I had the LTM Skopar. Sharp enough for my needs in street photography, but this test looks like the Nokton beats it in corner sharpness.

I ended up with the Ultron, which I got for dirt cheap, and had bokeh I liked better wide open (needed something faster than 2.5). Downside is that it's much bigger.

I still have the Skopar, if you want me to shoot a quick test.

 

[KM-25]

I currently have the Skopar, no test needed, it does exactly what I need it to do when I need it to. I can't concentrate on what matters any other way...

 

[Takkun]

I currently have the Skopar, no test needed, it does exactly what I need it to do when I need it to. I can't concentrate on what matters any other way...

Haha, no worries. I forgot about that detail when I responded…
Focus shift was another reason I shied away from the Nokton. There had to be a compromise from something that fast and small, along with the bokeh.
If you're looking for something faster, my vote's for the Ulton.

 

[jsrockit]

Which for general photography matters very little in my experience. The point is that you need to know the lens and understand how it behaves.

I like my lenses to be in agreement with my RF. Why would I want to lean in two inches if I want to use a certain f stop? Seems ridiculous to me.

The test that was posted earlier in the thread gives some idea about Nokton performance. Still, I suppose anyone shooting brick walls should probably focus bracket a lens that is known to exhibit significant focus shift.

It has nothing to do with brick walls... out of focus subjects can ruin a photo quickly. Sometimes you just cannot bracket... you only get one chance sometimes. Not everyone photographs the same way.

Anyone else should just know their lens. Depending on the aperture and focus distance, you may want to compensate for the shift. It's hardly an exact science, but it is a workable solution.

Or just buy a lens that doesn't have focus shift and rely on your RF patch for focusing. I'm not sure why people get so offended by those of us that don't want to use a lens that has focus shift.

 

[shortstop]

I like my lenses to be in agreement with my RF. Why would I want to lean in two inches if I want to use a certain f stop? Seems ridiculous to me. It has nothing to do with brick walls... out of focus subjects can ruin a photo quickly. Sometimes you just cannot bracket... you only get one chance sometimes. Not everyone photographs the same way. Or just buy a lens that doesn't have focus shift and rely on your RF patch for focusing. I'm not sure why people get so offended by those of us that don't want to use a lens that has focus shift.

Focus shift? Lost shots? if this is the price that must be paid, no thanks, no Nokton.

 

[bonatto]

Not sure which one is sharper, I no longer have the 2.5 pancake but both are excellent.

Colors skopar had too much bite for my taste at the time, but maybe it was the high sun environment I shot it in.

I now have a 35 Nokton s.c 1.4 which is my go-to nighttime lens. With a wide base rangefinder, it really makes a difference, and I have yet to notice or lose a shot because of any optical characteristics of the lens. If I lose a shot, I like to think it was my fault. I shoot it on film though, so on a digital body, try it out.

I also never bought into the sample variation ordeal, especially on new high end Japanese lenses. Get one with a warranty and don't worry yourself.

The Nokton is a phenomenal lens, handles beautifully, and I'm glad I gave it a proper chance. I'm happy with my sunny day 35s, so the Nokton stays in the bag. I consider it a low light lens.

Here are a couple of samples on arista premium 400

 

[Monochrom]

wow,

Nice lens comparison.

Teh color skopar is a areputed sharp lesn, but in his test i failed completely...

On the other hand the vc 35mm f1.4 appears to be a good choice for street shooting,...

 

[Lss]

I have to disagree, even after carefully establishing the correction for my C Sonnar 50 I still lost key shots in several cases that were impossible to reshoot.

I have been using the Nokton for years and have not lost a single shot with it due to focus shift. On the other hand, I got some very bad results the first time I tried a 75mm Summilux. This was due to the focus shift on the lens. There are differences in ways people work, the focal lengths, lens handling, etc. My point remains that one needs to know their lens for best results.

It's completely fine not to buy a Nokton based on the focus shift. What this thread started out with was considering its sharpness at 2.8. The lens is sharp at that aperture, and can be focused reliably at that aperture at long and middle distances. Very close focus is trickier, but can be done.

 

[sanmich]

another difference would be distortion.