Which Leica Ms are glasses-friendly? Plus bonus questions.

[Samuel D]

I am wondering if I should buy a Leica M film camera. I usually wear glasses. Which one should I get?

My present understanding is that only the M6 and later cameras have rubber eyepieces but that the M6 eyepiece can be bought (where?) and fitted to an M4 or later. A snap-on plastic cup can be bought (where?) for the M2 or M3.

Is that about right?

I would prefer rubber to plastic. And since eye relief is already marginal on these cameras, I’m not keen on gluing rubber O-rings onto metal eyepieces. This seems to limit my choice to M4 or later cameras.


•••


I like the M6 and M6 TTL and some of their modernisations but would prefer to eschew electronics. So what are the less-obvious differences between the M4, M4-2, and M4-P?

I am especially interested in internal mechanical differences. Has the argument ever been put forward that the Canadian Ms from the rationalised production line are actually superior to earlier ‘handmade’ Ms?

 

[grouchos_tash]

I struggle to see the 35mm framelines with my M6 and the flare on the viewfinder is so frustrating, my Bessa R2a has a way better viewfinder IMO.

 

[sanmich]

two different issues:
1- the magnification: better look for a 058x body if you like wides
2- scratches: Not a reason to buy something over something else: you can add a protection (DAG) or ask the same DAG if you can add an M6 cover on an M2/M4 for example

 

[presspass]

Unfortunately, the best M-mount viewfinder is on the discontinued Zeiss Ikon. That certainly doesn't meet your non-electronic requirement. If you want an M that doesn't require electronics and if you don't shoot a 135mm lens, the .58 MP works well. It does not require a battery and the 35 frame is visible if you wear glasses. The M6 TTL was also available with a .58 finder and it will operate without a battery but it will not fire a flash if it does not have a working battery in place.

 

[Ko.Fe.]

"Intrernal mechanical differences" and "superior" is old mythology. Any Leica is violin, the rest are balalaikas.

 

[a.noctilux]

Each Leica M is different.
If you buy one M second hand, it's condition depends on how it has been used and took care of (CLA or repair).
I mean that the origin (Wetzlar or Ontario) has no importance, if you plan to use it.

Just buy one and if you are not happy with it, you can sell with small (or not) loss of money.
That's the best advice for new M user (as well as for lenses): try it by yourself.

As side note, I have seen that you don't mention the lens to be used with your M, you may choose with that in mind...

Regards,

Arnaud

 

[jsrockit]

It really depends on the lens used.

 

[Ong]

I run the M4-2 with the Aki Asahi patches (http://www.aki-asahi.com/store/html/patch/M2M3/eyepiece/index.php )with really no problem with regards to eye relief and glasses scratching.

I'm not able to see the "full view" of the viewfinder, but as long as I shoot above 30mm I can see the framelines (so, 35, 50, 90, 135mm framelines are perfectly usable with no issue)

If I was using anything wider to begin with external finders would be significantly more useful with an external VF anyway so...

 

[lawrence]

Zeiss Ikon ZM or Leica M6 TTL 0.58 are wonderful with 35mm lenses and, importantly for me, only one set of frame-lines with this FL. Both have rubber eyepieces and of the two the 0.58 gives slightly better eye relief.

 

[BLKRCAT]

if you want the "proper" eyepiece you can run an M6 eyepiece on an M4+. Probably would even work with an M2.

I've got M6 eyepieces on both my M4 and my M5. Works well on both and with the OEM quality and reliability I don't have to worry about things becoming unstuck in warm temperatures, or cracking or falling off when out in the street.

I got mine installed when I was getting my cameras overhauled at kinderman.

For eyeglass wearers I would recommend 50mm focal length with the 0.72x finder. Works well without having to cram your face against the finder.

35mm can be done on the M5 but I find it's a tad too wide for the M4. Not sure why this is.

 

[oltimer]

Sam, whatever M camera you decide on, or even a quality IIIG screw mount; the only enjoyable way I shoot mine is with an external viewfinders. I never use the rangefinder in mine; and always shoot hyper focal.

 

[DanskDynamit]

I wear glasses and I use an M6 .72 with the rubber eyepiece. No problems with 35mm frames.
with old M3, I was using it with this eyepiece patch from Aki asahi:
http://aki-asahi.com/store/html/patch/M2M3/eyepiece/
a very good solution.

 

[Out to Lunch]

Zeiss Ikon ZM or Leica M6 TTL 0.58 are wonderful with 35mm lenses and, importantly for me, only one set of frame-lines with this FL. Both have rubber eyepieces and of the two the 0.58 gives slightly better eye relief.

I second Lawrence's findings. I have both cameras, wear glasses and have no problem with wide lenses.

 

[Samuel D]

I forgot to mention I’m on a tight budget, so MPs and the like are strictly out.

I am short-sighted, so my glasses increase the eye relief even as they physically increase the distance from eye to eyepiece. The two effects roughly cancel out. People who wear glasses for hyperopia or presbyopia have a harder time with eyepieces of short eye relief.

So I am not as concerned about seeing the framelines as I am about scratching my glasses. In a test with a friend’s M2, I could just about see the 35 mm framelines while trying not to touch my glasses to the metal surround. If I could press gently against the surround I would not have a significant problem with the 35 mm framelines. Any 28 mm framelines may be another matter.

Can anyone confirm if the M6 eyepiece can be fitted to the M2? In the case of the M4, is the M6 eyepiece something I could fit myself?

The M6 TTL was also available with a .58 finder and it will operate without a battery but it will not fire a flash if it does not have a working battery in place.

Interesting. But an M4-2 or M4-P will trigger a flash in the shoe?

"Intrernal mechanical differences" and "superior" is old mythology. Any Leica is violin, the rest are balalaikas.

But there are violins and Stradivarii, aren’t there. This article made me wonder.

Sam, whatever M camera you decide on, or even a quality IIIG screw mount; the only enjoyable way I shoot mine is with an external viewfinders. I never use the rangefinder in mine; and always shoot hyper focal.

The long focus throws, well-populated distance scales, widely spaced depth-of-field ticks, and better infinity alignment are major reasons for my wanting a Leica M. These features are all but extinct on modern lenses, even manual-focus SLR lenses. So I hear what you’re saying.

Thanks for all the replies.

 

[Dez]

I hunted around until I could find an eyepiece diopter at a decent price on eBay, ~$30, and use it on M3 and M5.

Cheers,
Dez

 

[Peter de Waal]

the eyeglass scratching problem is due to modern prescriptions being filled with coated plastic lenses. When new, glasses-wearing users of the M3-M2-M4-M5 would have had glass prescription lenses and scratching was not an issue.

With plastic prescription lenses even if you don't inadvertently wipe the (dusty) metal VF over the coated plastic surface, just the action of repeatedly bringing the VF up to the plastic lens leaves "dimples" in it's surface which result in a perceived loss of visual sharpness after a while. I know this because I repair cameras and am doing this constantly with many types of camera.

I solved this problem by having my prescription made up in Zeiss T* coated glass lenses, which have the best hard coating around and are also toughened. I have used my metal eye-pieced M3, M2's and M5 for years with this prescription without any scratching problems.

I tend to renew my prescription lenses every five years or so as my eyesight is quite stable at -1.0D, but I have a slight astigmatism that wanders around a bit. One tip is to choose a titanium frame, as this helps offset the weight of the glass prescription lens. A smallish frame also allows you to get in closer to the eyepiece.

As a bonus you will also notice a lack of chromatic aberration at the edges of the field with coated glass lenses as compared to polycarbonate. I have tried several makes of plastic lenses, they all had some CA. Leitz also make eyeglass lenses if you want to keep it Leica all the way.

 

[michaelwj]

Peter, you use Zeiss glass with your Leica! How dare you, surely the Leica glass is far superior! 😀

 

[Gregm61]

Any Leica M and a tight budget is kind of mutually exclusive. Even third party lenses like Cosina made Zeiss and Voigtlander are not inexpensive, and any M body has to be periodically serviced.

As a glasses wearer myself with a -10 diopter, glasses are a must for me 24/7, but any M body is easy enough to shoot. I have M4 and M6 film bodies and M9-P and M262 bodies and have no problem shooting any of them. I just don't press my eye against the M4 eye piece. Eventually I plan to send it to DAG to service and add an M6 type eye piece. Wider lenses require a usable solution, which is why I invested in the Frankenfinder to use my 18 and 24mm Super Elmars.

 

[nikonhswebmaster]

I hunted around until I could find an eyepiece diopter at a decent price on eBay, ~$30, and use it on M3 and M5.

Cheers,
Dez

Ditto, and I do it on all my cameras. I am nearsighted, so taking my glasses off is somewhat problematic, but I don't trip on things, so I put them on my head, or in my pocket and shoot. In my studio no problem, since I do not wear my glasses much indoors, because I am often reading or using my computer.

 

[geoffallen]

Glasses wearer and M4-2 owner here.

I have no problem with my M's finder. I use it as feels natural, without a second thought. No scratches to speak of. Yet, anyway. I routinely use a Contax G1 as well, and I'm pretty certain that anything is an improvement over that finder..

I'm a firm believer that the Canadian Ms are just as beautiful and praiseworthy as their counterparts, and at least as well-made, if not more so, than the M6. I did my due diligence before buying: I knew that reports of teething issues were widespread within the first few hundred units, and I knew which S/Ns those corresponded to so that I could avoid them. Mine is as near-mint as I think a 37-year-old camera can be (you could easily mistake it for new), and it's honestly a dream to use. It feels like a precision instrument, because it is.

Oh, and I went with the M4-2 over the M4-P because I preferred the simplified finder, plus I'm not a huge fan of the red dot.