which M for a newbie?

[woffle]

Hi folks. First post so please be gentle. I've done a quick check to see if this is a regularly asked question (RTFM and all that) and couldn't see anything but apologies if it's the same old.

Right - I've been using digital cameras for the last 5 years or so going from little point and shoot > Kodak DCS 620 > Sigma SD10 > Canon 20D as usage (+finances) have allowed. I was fortunate to recently chance across a v.cheap Hasselblad and thoroughly enjoyed MF - the move back to my school days with 'proper' film / light meters et al. So much so I'd like to keep my little sony point and shoot and trade my Canon DSLR gear in for a 35mm rangefinder system.

So my heart's set on a leica (my father used them and can't rave enough about them / legendary reputation etc ) - the question being which of the bewildering array of M's would be best as a 'starter' kit.? I've probably got around >£1000ish (when I've sold my old kit and a bit extra) to spend on a body + 1 lens.

Not fussed about aesthetic condition, buying used and old etc. Any advice much appreciated.

Joe

Oh - anyone fancy a trade for a boxed 20D + Canon 17-40L + Lowepro bag ;-)

 

[JoeFriday]

hey Joe.. welcome to RFF

if you prefer a meterless model, the two most popular are the M2 or M3.. the difference being the M2 has framelines for 35mm but not 135mm.. and the M3 is the opposite.. the M3 also has greater magnification in the viewfinder to compensation for the longer lens

so between those two, it depends on whether you want to shoot wide or long

the M4-P is also a decent bargain these days, but doesn't have quite the following here

for a metered model, you would want to look for an M6.. either the 'classic model' or the later TTL.. the 'classic' being slightly cheaper

as for lenses.. you have a lot of options there.. depending on whether you go with the 'normal' 50mm length or wider or longer.. but a body and one lens should be within your budget

I personally have an M3 and love it.. there are days when I think an M2 would be great for wider lenses.. but if I wanted to go wider, I'd probably look at an M6 these days

 

[wlewisiii]

First a few questions of you:

1) Do you want a meter? Can you live without one or perhaps even don't want one?
2) What focal lengths do you prefer?
3) Do you like larger or smaller camera bodies?

William

 

[Mark Norton]

I'd go M6 Classic, TTL version offers little more and I'd then go for something wider than a 50, something like a 35mm f2 pre-ASPH. Pretty much as compact as you can get with an M.

 

[sebastel]

at a tag of 1 kpound for a full outfit, I'd say: be flexible and get what you can get. actually all of the M are absolutely more than decent, once you got one without problems (there are few, though). maybe you'll need to count in a cleaning and finder adjustment service.
as for the lenses ... will be not that easy to get more than one, if it needs to be true leica. still, the pre used market sometimes offers unexpected gems.
so, nothing is better than having those 500 pounds easily available for what you might suddenly find.
do you have any idea what your preferred focus length is? are you the 50mm type, or are you the 35mm type photographer?

for 50mm and longer, the M3 is best choice, followed my more recent models offering 0.86x finder.
for the 35mm shooter, the M2, M4, M4-P and recent models with 0.72x finder are good choice. (personally i always liked the M2 especially, but i am not unhappy using M6 and LTM bodies)
the 0.58x finder should be a good idea if you primarily use wide angle (28mm) or you wear (heavy) glasses. my slim goggles never impacted my view trough 0.72x finder, so it depends ...

hope these considerations may have helped.

oh, by the way, if you are not afraid of electronics, the minolta CLE is a charming little box! still it is a special one (not all lens trigger the right framelines).

if you are on an extremely strict budget, or you NEED a larger number of lens, the cosina/voigtländer bessa series might help. you can still "update" your body later ... the lens make the picture!

kind regards,
sebastian

 

[clarence]

[facetious]The most appropriate newbie M would be the M8, of course. You can shoot, check the LCD, and shoot and shoot again.[/facetious]

Clarence

 

[MCTuomey]

if you need a meter in the body, then an M6 "classic" or the slightly larger M5, both best buys these days

if you don't need a meter in the body, then M2, M3, or one of the M4 variations

M3 if you like the 50 or longer focal lengths (an M3 with a 50 and 90 is a lovely shooting kit)

M2 or one of the M4 bodies if you will be shooting 50 and wider frequently

the M6 bodies offer six framelines (in pairs) and thus are most versatile as a single camera (for many lenses). some find the M6 finder "clutterred" but that's not my experience

you cannot go wrong with any of them - jump in with what grabs your fancy and you'll fast learn whether it works for you. then if need be you can sell yours to try another. no harm in this approach.

 

[woffle]

Hi folks - thanks for the advice.

To answer some questions - I err slightly on the wide side with lenses (my current main lens is a 17-40 on my 20D (x1.6 due to the CCD)). I'm happy not to have a meter as I've got a decent enough handheld but then again, it'd be nice...

Again - thanks for the advice. I guess I'll lurk for a bit and think about it a bit.

decisions, decisions!

Cheers

Joe

 

[Rafael]

Hi Joe,

Welcome to the forum. If you are leaning slightly towards the wide side, then I would second the recommendation that you get a 0.72x finder. In your price range that would probably put you into an M2 or possibly an M4 or M4-P. Keep your eye on the classifieds here. RFF sellers tend to offer their gear at very fair prices. You will also be dealing with a great group of people. Good luck. Enjoy your search.

 

[Rich Silfver]

For what it seems you want: M6 TTL

 

[nikon_junkie]

I recently picked up a M3 and 50mm as well as a M6ttl and 35mm. Only problem with going the M3/M2 route are the unforseen costs that lie ahead. Likely CLA $300US. Do you have a handheld meter?

Comparing the two, I like the M3 viewfinder much more. I prefer the m3 body as well, though I haven't done much other than fondle the ttl. I like meterless bodies in general and working with a handheld meter.

 

[Flyfisher Tom]

Welcome Joe.

First question, do you want classic coke or classic coke with TTL metering? For classic, you will do great with a M2 or M3 body. For TTL metering, the M6TTL is the best valued body out there right now, about $1200 to $1400 for a great used body.

Second question, what focal length is your favorite? 35? 50? wide angle? If 35, go with the M2 or a M6TTL in the .58 or .72 mag models. If 50, go with the M3 or a M6TTL in the .85 mag model. If you favor 28 and wider, then any body will do as you will be well served with a separate external viewfinder.

So figure out whether you want to go classic (and use a handheld meter), or modern. Then figure out which focal length you prefer.

Buying. Robert White has used bodies sometimes, they are great to deal with, honest. Ebay, but it is hit and miss. Or put in a WTB (want to buy) ad here at RFF or at photo.net. Check the references of those who contact you. Generally, there are some great deals to be had with members at RFF and photo.net.

good luck

 

[richard_l]

I would suggest an M2 and the 35mm f/2.8 Summaron (preferably the M2 version rather than the goggled M3 version).

Richard

 

[chug]

Go with what ever you can afford.

 

[max35mm]

meterless M4 or M4-P (less expensive)
metered M6

lens? 50 cron or 35 cron (IV version)

ciao

 

[max35mm]

meterless M4 or M4-P (less expensive)
metered M6

lens? 50 cron or 35 cron (IV version)

ciao

 

[rover]

I would suggest an M2 and the 35mm f/2.8 Summaron (preferably the M2 version rather than the goggled M3 version).

Richard

And this may be found for close to your budget.

All of the suggestions are of course good. Every Leica body is excellent, and the lenses are wonderful, you will find one to fit your liking. But a lot of the suggestions here will spend your budget, or more for just the body or just the lens.

Keeping to the $1000 you can find a lot of options. If you want to follow your father's words stick with a Leica instead of another brand RF, though the other RFs also offer good options.

M2s have been selling low this week, there have been a few offered for under $500. In user condition you can normally find them for $600-$700. That would be a good choice for use of wider than 50mm lenses as would an M4-2 or M4-P which you should be able to find for under $1000. An M3 will run in the same range as the M2, or maybe a little higher and is great for 50mm and longer as already stated.

There are a whole slew of lenses which you will be able to mate with your camera. The 35 Summaron as Richard suggests is a very highly though of lens and will pair well with the M2. I am not a keen to the prices of these lenses, but my guess is that you should be able to find one for $400 or less. If you want to go with a 50mm lens a collapsible Summicron is an excellent choice and most likely the most affordable contemporary to an M2 or M3.

Have a look at camera articles pages at the Cameraquest web site. Stephen provides buckets of excellent information as well as being one of our sponsors. You will get an idea there of the non Leica cameras and lenses available too.

http://cameraquest.com/rangefinder_forum_welcome.htm

 

[woffle]

Ok folks - thanks for all the advice. Much appreciated.

I think from what everyone's said I'm going to aim for a M6 (TTL? not sure) and whatever single lens I can afford - it's probably going to be pushing my budget a little (that's 1000 £GBP not $USD btw - I'm based in the UK) but I figure if I look long enough I'll get lucky. The inbuilt metering swings it, I've a Pentax Spotmeter for my old Hassleblad CM but the point of getting a Leica for me is something more portable than the Hassie for candid portraiture / street photography and I'd rather not carry something extra around with me...

I guess it helps that I'm not fussy about condition - as long as it's optically great and fully functional - paintwork stratches aren't an issue.

Right - let the search begin...

Thanks again.

Joe

 

[rover]

the m6 classic is an excellent camera. they sell for around $1000 us or a little more so you should be able to find a lens to keep you close ish to your budget. whatever you choose keep us informed and share your results.

 

[pab]

Until very recently I thought a Leica was out of the question, but then I came across an M6 (non-TTL) for £700 and just had to have it. I have absolutely no regrets- it's simply a superb performer. I'd look out for an M6 and then add to that a Cosina voigtlander 35mm f2.5 Color-Skopar. That will keep you under £1000 and give you an excellent kit.