Which modern MF RF?

T

Terao

Kiloran
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What are the options available? I previously used a Mamiya 645 Super but found it a little bulky and not at all ergonomic to use. I'd mainly use it for landscape and architecture alongside my R-D1. Ideally I guess it therefore needs to be:

Compact
Metered
High quality wide angle lens (ideally equiv of say 28mm in 35mm)
"Cheap" - I'm a midrange guy, the kind of person who buys "good enough" rather than best (check my sig :eek:)

Bonus points:

Interchangeable lenses
multi-format

Bigger neg than the 645 but still scannable with a Coolscan 8000 or similar

Thanks in advance.
 
If you want wide, go with a Mamiya 7 and a 43mm f/4.5 lens.
Granted it'll set you back at least $4000 ($1300-1500 for the body, $2600 for the lens), but the quality cannot be beat by another RF.

If you can stand using 645, the Bronica RF645 and a 45mm f/4.5 will be as compact a MF system as you'll find, and the lens isn't unsharp by any means. The vertical image orientation can be a pain, though.
 
Forgetting the "modern" criteria for a while, have you check on folder MF from the 50's?
They are compact and you can get a good working sample at around $200.

If you managed to get a decent one (top of the line lens and shutter), the results are strikingly GOOD.

Let me know if you're interested, I'll give you a couple of pointers other than the most obvious one here.
 
If you are willing to compromise a bit on your requirements I can highly recommend the
Fuji FILM GA645-ZI (55-90 AF)

This is a loverly Fuji rangefinder with auto-everything capabilities that is a joy to use. The pictures are tack sharp with the Fuji zoom lens (37-65mm equivalent on a 35mm camera). The zoom lens is fixed but I find it a useful range for most of the photography I do. I usually don't like auto-everything cameras, but this one is so well thought out that the auto functions never get in my way. Also, it can be used in fully manual mode, but I have been so happy with the auto mode that I haven't tried that yet.

It is also light weight for a mdeium format camera, and very easy to carry around. The 6x4.5 cm format and the camera design make it only slightly larger than a 35mm slr. I got mine on eBay for $600 in mint condition (and it really was!).

Most of my shooting is landscapes, but it would be equally at home doing portraits and street shooting, because it is easy to carry and relatively small. BTW, the built in flash works well with good light balance with the background out to 6 feet or so. All in all, a remarkable medium format camera.

/T

P.S. There are several available on eBay now.
 
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Mamiya 7 is probably pushing the budget a little but I'll do some reading, thanks

GA645 certainly interests me, hadn't realised they were so "cheap".

And 50s folders do as well, have always loved the look of the Bessa II but I fear its just not wide enough for my needs.

What are the other options Shadowfox?
 
Fuji

Fuji

I too, must second the Ga645. I had one, and it was great. Stunning negatives, meter dead on even when shooting slide film in mediocre conditions, built like a tank, easy to carry, and seriously sharp lens. I mean really really great lens. Great pop up flash too.
Downsides: not a low light camera, lens is only medium wide, moderately heavy. I'll be buying another sometime. BTW, are you selling your "p", and if so how much?
 
What about a Mamiya 6 or 6MF with a 50mm lens - approximately 28mm equivalent in 35mm. The lens retracts into the body to make it a very portable camera.
 
Mamiya 7 (ii) or Plaubel Makina 67W if you can find one. I've seen the Plaubel wide around for as "little" as $1500... Granted, it's not that "modern".

PS, I've only had my 7ii for a while but think it's perhaps the best thing since sliced bread. My only real beef with it is the light metre is useless, especially seeing as it can't be read at some angles of view. f4 lenses are a problem too, but easy to work around for my use. Buy from Japan of Hong Kong and you'll save big dollars.
 
From use i'd recommend the Plaubel 67/670 with its fixed Nikkor 80/2.8 lens or the Mamiya 6, both of which are collapsible and therefore compact. The latter having 3 interchangeable lenses. The latest Mamiya 7ii is also an excellent camera with a good range of lenses but compact it isn't. If compactness doesn't matter you might want to consider the range of 6/7 and 6/9 Fuji fixed lens rangefinders, the 690 having a wide version with a 65mm lens. The 690ii version can be found for reasonable $. I have and use both the GW690III and the GWS690II. None of these Fuji models are metered however.

Here's some sites that you may find helpful:

Dante Stella reviews the Fuji 670/690 models

http://www.dantestella.com/technical/g690bl.html

Ken Rockwell reviews the Plaubel Makina 67/670

http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/plaubel.htm
 
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Go with the Mamiya 7 or 7II. You just can't beat these cameras. I hear that the Plaubel Makina is nice too, but that's a really old camera. As for one comment that the light meter on the Mamiya is "absolutely useless," I guess that some people just don't know how to use their light meter. I've had great luck with the extremely accurate meters in the Mamiya. Useless? It is a spot meter on the mamiya, but that shouldn't be any problem if you know how it woks. It's really strange to call the meter "useless"-- it is so totally accurate.
 
benm3 said:
Go with the Mamiya 7 or 7II. You just can't beat these cameras. I hear that the Plaubel Makina is nice too, but that's a really old camera. As for one comment that the light meter on the Mamiya is "absolutely useless," I guess that some people just don't know how to use their light meter. I've had great luck with the extremely accurate meters in the Mamiya. Useless? It is a spot meter on the mamiya, but that shouldn't be any problem if you know how it woks. It's really strange to call the meter "useless"-- it is so totally accurate.
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The Plaubel is from the mid 80's so it's in the same era as the Leica M4-P and early M6's so it's not that old!
Having owned both i'd say the Mamiya meter is much less a spot meter - the Plaubel has a 5 degree meter which is much narrower.
 
Terao said:
GA645 certainly interests me, hadn't realised they were so "cheap".

And 50s folders do as well, have always loved the look of the Bessa II but I fear its just not wide enough for my needs.

What are the other options Shadowfox?
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You're right, I've never seen a 50's folder with 60mm or wider lens, I guess wide angle just wasn't fashionable back then.

If I may ask, why do you need wider angle, the 75mm and 85mm of the MF folders can be considered "wide", they are 40mm equivalent of the 35mm, right?

I have one of the big fuji's (6x7) so I can attest to the sharpness of the lens... *VERY SHARP* :)

... but it'll probably fail in your compactness criteria.
 
The other thing to consider with a MF camera is how often you have to reload film. I have a Fuji 690, and it eats film fast. I'm always reloading the damn thing. With my 645 and 220 film, on the other hand, I get 32 shots, almost as much as with a 35mm film camera. 32 shots is actually better to me, because I always seem to stop there and with 35mm cameras leave the film in forever until I can get around to shooting again. With 220 it's done and off to the processor. While larger formats do give you theorically higher quality prints, unless you are planning on blowing up to billboard size, a 645 will probably be just as effective and a hell of alot easier to carry around and use.

/T
 
toyotadesigner said:
What about the tack sharp Fuji GW690 III with the 3.5/90mm or the GSW690 III with the 5.6/65mm.

Or even the Plaubel 69W Proshift Superwide with a Schneider Super Angulon 5.6/47mm with 110° angle of view?

Or if you don't want 6x9, a Plaubel Makina M670 with a 2.8/80mm Nikkor, or a Makina W67 with a 4.5/55mm Nikkor.

I think all cameras in this class are worth a consideration and second look.

Perfect lenses. Great mechanical masterpieces. Precision instruments.

The Fujis and the 69W don't have a built-in light meter, no batteries. They'll work just everywhere.
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You forgot one of the criteria from the OP, compactness.
Both my wife and I were laughing ourselves silly when I first took the Fuji GW670 out of the package. My Olympus XA looks like a small zit compared to it :D
 
shadowfox said:
You're right, I've never seen a 50's folder with 60mm or wider lens, I guess wide angle just wasn't fashionable back then.

If I may ask, why do you need wider angle, the 75mm and 85mm of the MF folders can be considered "wide", they are 40mm equivalent of the 35mm, right?

I have one of the big fuji's (6x7) so I can attest to the sharpness of the lens... *VERY SHARP* :)

... but it'll probably fail in your compactness criteria.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure that I do need wide. I use 25 and 40mm most often on my R-D1 (so ~37 & 60mm equiv). I also use a GR-D and like the 28mm FOV. 35 or 40mm equiv would be just about OK based on those I guess.
Other than the Bessa II (which seems to have got expensive for what it is recently) what are the other options? Various Agfas?
 
Terao said:
I'm not sure that I do need wide. I use 25 and 40mm most often on my R-D1 (so ~37 & 60mm equiv). I also use a GR-D and like the 28mm FOV. 35 or 40mm equiv would be just about OK based on those I guess.
Other than the Bessa II (which seems to have got expensive for what it is recently) what are the other options? Various Agfas?
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Let's see, for 6x6, there are the Ansco MF folders, some of them are identical twins of the more expensive Agfas, sporting real Agfa lenses.

Personally, I only look for a model that has built in rangefinders (either coupled or not, it's better than guessing the distance ... and miss the focus on only 10 frames per roll :eek:) and usually these models are equipped by better Agfa lenses.

For 6x9, there are less choices, most of them don't have rangefinders.
 
benm3 said:
Go with the Mamiya 7 or 7II. You just can't beat these cameras. I hear that the Plaubel Makina is nice too, but that's a really old camera. As for one comment that the light meter on the Mamiya is "absolutely useless," I guess that some people just don't know how to use their light meter. I've had great luck with the extremely accurate meters in the Mamiya. Useless? It is a spot meter on the mamiya, but that shouldn't be any problem if you know how it woks. It's really strange to call the meter "useless"-- it is so totally accurate.
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Yes, I think it's meter is usesless. It's not a through the lens meter, but through the viewfinder. Having said that, to use it as an indicator, sure, but not for work with slide or critical stuff. Actually, my main problem with it isn't how accurate it is, mainly that I find it incredibly hard to see. It's hidden at the bottom of the frame and seems to dissappear in certain lights.

I love the camera but small it isn't compared to a leica and summicron. I don't find it heavy and street work is easy to do unnoticed due to the silent shutter. A 5D EOS system and lens is about the same size.
 
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