White splotches on film

[tommish_film]

I recently developed some Ilford HP5 and the results had some unusual white splotches on them.

https://tommish.com/2020/07/24/weird-things-on-my-film/

Film was developed with Ilfosol 3 1+14 for 11:00 as per datasheet. 30 seconds in Ilfostop 1+19 and 2 minutes in Rapid Fixer 1+4 with a 10 minute water rinse and a dunk in some in a tub of water with a few drops of ilfotol.

Left to dry overnight and scanned the next morning.

I have had no problems with this process before and was wondering if anyone might have some explanation as to what the cause was? Film was exposed on a Pentax 645N at 400 +1/3 that evening. Chemistry was freshly mixed that night about an hour before developing.

 

[Rayt]

Was the film expired? I get this from time to time with expired 120 film. I don’t think processing was at fault.

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

Well, I've not encountered that before, but you are really cutting things to the bare minimum on times for stop, fix and washing - especially as you are not using hypoclear. I have no idea how soft or hard the water is in your area, or indeed how much particulate matter there is in it, but I would double the times for stop, double that for fix, use hypoclear and ensure your photoflo is mixed in distilled water. I am very lucky here to have very soft water, but in my last house I used developer etc mixed with distilled water to avoid marks.

 

[jbhthescots]

Well, I've not encountered that before, but you are really cutting things to the bare minimum on times for stop, fix and washing - especially as you are not using hypoclear. I have no idea how soft or hard the water is in your area, or indeed how much particulate matter there is in it, but I would double the times for stop, double that for fix, use hypoclear and ensure your photoflo is mixed in distilled water. I am very lucky here to have very soft water, but in my last house I used developer etc mixed with distilled water to avoid marks.

Certainly agree here with using distilled water and doubling of stop and fixing times.

 

[Deleted member 65559]

Certainly agree here with using distilled water and doubling of stop and fixing times.

Likewise, my guess would be insufficient fixing rather than any inherent film flaws

 

[alexmuir]

White splotches on film

The stop and fix times sound fine for fresh chemicals. Expired 120 film, as already mentioned, can sometimes produce marks on the negatives. I think it has something to do with the backing paper. The other possibility might be adverse storage conditions for the film. Could it have been exposed to heat or humidity? If fridge stored, was it allowed enough time to come up to ambient temperature before opening?
I would normally wash a bit longer, but 10 minutes should be enough if you are not bothered about archival quality.
Alex


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[cjm]

I had a mishap that looked exactly like this. In my case, I determined it was insufficient fixing.

Example:

 

[Ronald M]

In my experience fixer needs as much agitation as developer or more. The process get to completion so you can not over fix within reason.

 

[PKR]

Been using Hypo Check for years with prints. Fresh fix for film every time.

https://www.amazon.com/Edwal-Hypo-Check-Chemical-Exhausted-Fixers/dp/B00009R6Z5

 

[tommish_film]

Thanks very much for all the feedback. Film is all in date and has been well preserved. I have 6 rolls remaining from the batch of 10 that I purchased so will do some experimentation under more controlled circumstances this weekend. I'll post the results once ready for further discussion and hopefully a solid conclusion. Thanks again for the quick and valuable feedback.

 

[CharlesDAMorgan]

You could re-fix the film (just fix, wash etc as normal) and see it that cures it. I've done it before with no issue.

 

[RichyD]

Looks like moisture between backing paper and film. I had similar issues two years ago with some 120 Foma film, purchased directly from a dealer then used the next day over a weekend. I think this can happen from poor storage conditions and humidity or something between refrigeration and use allowing condensation. In my case I remember I bought the film at the end of a hot and humid August.

 

[Colin G.]

I have to agree with RichyD. I've had the same issue. I created this thread:
https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=169490&highlight=film+problem

In my experience it only happens with HP5+. I tried mixing all new chemicals and I found distilled water. I even bought more film and didn't put it in my fridge to try to reduce cooling/warming/condensation but still the issue occurred.

There's a lengthy discussion on photrio.com about this issue.
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/ilford-film-manufacturing-defects-post-here.167206/

 

[tommish_film]

So I finally exposed another two rolls of the same batch of HP 5 and they have the same problem. This time developed in ID-11, stopped for 30 seconds with ilfostop and fixed with rapid fixer for 5 minutes. Constant agitation. I also developed a roll of 35mm HP5 and a roll of tri-x in the same batch of chemistry. Same method, same everything. HP5 on a 35mm spool came out perfect, and the tri-x too. Film all stored in the same environment. Allowed to come to room temp before removal from the packaging and shot within hours of loading. I tend to think it is a bad batch of film, or has somehow been mistreated before sale. I've shot a lot of HP5 and developed a fair bit of it with great results, except for this one batch. I still have 4 rolls left so will develop an unexposed roll tomorrow.

 

[Guest]

I have at least a dozen films that look, EXACTLY THE SAME as yours. Mine are Ilford FP4 I stopped using that stuff and have not had a problem since. It is either a film near the end or has passed its best date. I blamed the backing paper because I even have films with the frame numbers on the negative, that was it for me with Ilford.

 

[Guest]

And regarding comments above about chemistry, no way was that an issue with me. I am a sticker with my chemistry and I fix my films for ages at least four times the recommended time.
It’s a film age problem and possibly a storage one. Never had an issue with the film in England but I think the high heat and humidity in the south of North America damages the paper backing.

 

[Ronald M]

I agitate like crazy with fix. You can not over fix with agitation.

Developer needs agitation, but be consistent.

 

[ooze]

https://www.ilfordphoto.com/statement-120-roll-film/

 

[Guest]

Well done for finding that Ilford post. Well if they expected me to store my camera with the film already loaded in a temperature of 68 F or lower where I live, they can dream on. In the summer I fight over one degree change in our house. I can tolerate 77 F but the wife likes 78 F that one degree is something I can personally detect. And when outside with my cameras the temperatures are in the high 90’s in Just and and August.
This reassures me that I made the right decision in stopping my use of Ilford film. In the U.K. their temperature and humidity is OK for their film but over here, no way.
I just remembered that when I went to Egypt back in 1989 many of my films were ruined by these white splotches, I should have realized back then what the issue was, it was not until 2000 that I gave up on their film.

 

[Highway 61]

I agitate like crazy with fix. You can not over fix with agitation.

You will not achieve a proper fixing by agitating like crazy if your fixer is dead. You need to agitate for, say, one minute once you have filled the tank with fixer (to avoid unfixed spots due to air bubbles on the film surface, think of tapping the tank bottom on the working bench once done, like with developer), then again from time to time (every thirty seconds and for, say, five seconds), but agitating "like crazy" is pretty useless : what you need is a good fixer and to fix long enough (not too long though, or you will get negatives fading).

Back to topic : I have had similar problems from time to time with pretty all 120 BW films I used (Ilford, Kodak, Foma, Fuji...) and I wouldn't blame Ilford in particular. It didn't happen too often, and always happened to me with either long time expired 120 films or Foma films from a clearly defective batch. With Ilford HP5+ I once got tiny light leaks on some photos because I had used a Fuji take-up spool, and I noticed that the new 120 Ilford films were a bit narrower than before, so there is room for light leaks if your take-up spool is a random one and if you aren't careful enough with how you handle the exposed roll once you take it off the camera. Oh well.

Worse case of splotches on film was, for me, with a roll of ORWO 25 120 film, but, hey - it was expired for thirty-five years when I used it and I kinda was ready to discover such problems on the negatives. That said, it wasn't worse than what we can see in this thread, with a different pattern.

I haven't noticed any similar particular problems with 120 films I either store in my fridge or in my freezer, given that I allow them to slowly come back to ambient temp. in sealed plastic bags before taking them out of their original packaging, to avoid condensation.