Who has moved to the Nikon ZF?

[Freakscene]

View attachment 4831997
1/100th sec, F1.5, ISO6400.

This is with the Z5 and 90mm F1.5 Mitakon, wide-open. Focus-Peaking is like having a full-frame rangefinder patch. Focus on the girl on the left.
The 3.6MDot finder is the same in all the Nikons except the Z9, which is higher count. Good enough for shots like these, with the house-lights out and disco lights on. Dark.
I cannot do this with my Df, I've tried. Too dark. The Leica M9, Monochrom, M240- can focus using the RF patch, but need subject centered. The M240 EFV is lower res, and too much latency to get the shot.
I'll buy myself a Zf for a retirement present, March is it.

Thanks Brian; these are very interesting observations. The Sony A7r V has a 9M pixel finder and with enough pixels I can probably manually focus without peaking. But I’m getting tired of dealing with menus and Sonys are complicated. I just don’t have much option to try these cameras out here, and my M10M and lenses need servicing so I’ll need something . . .

 

[former member]

You are welcome!

This shot is using the Canon 50/0.95 wide-open, first week that I bought the camera. Focus peaking- nothing to learn. See red, shoot.
ISO6400, 1/100th, F0.95.

 

[Darthfeeble]

This thread goaded me into trying my M mount lenses on my Zfc, makes for a nice light rig. I use the AEL/AFL button to zoom and that makes the focusing much easier. My Fuji E-3 doesn't seem to have that function as an option.

 

[former member]

I looked at the Sony line-up. The $3K A7CR, with a 61MPixel sensor, has a 2.36MDot finder. Way behind the entry level $1K Nikon Z5. too bad.

 

[Darthfeeble]

Our local (like only 35 miles away) camera store has them in stock, I might go down this weekend and take a peak. The quality of the viewfinder isn't too much an issue, but the ease of zooming for focus is, I want to see if it's as simple as a programable button like the Nikon.

 

[wlewisiii]

I was looking at eprey "completed" auctions just now. There are used z6's going for ~$700 to $800. Add a Newell vertical grip for $80 and and handful of adapters for the lenses I own and I could be set for under a grand. That's almost scary.

 

[former member]

You can get a new Z5 for $1,000. I did! FSI vs BSI? The front-side illuminated CMOS - the image above is without correction for vignetting. Canon 50/0.95 is a fast/short lens, and is the extreme case for a sensor. I'll do a test once I have the Zf. I am keeping the Z5.

 

[wlewisiii]

You can get a new Z5 for $1,000. I did! FSI vs BSI? The front-side illuminated CMOS - the image above is without correction for vignetting. Canon 50/0.95 is a fast/short lens, and is the extreme case for a sensor. I'll do a test once I have the Zf. I am keeping the Z5.

Hmm, I had thought the Z5 couldn't do a vertical grip, reading further on the Newell website says differently. That may change my plans a bit... My D810 really has made me very fond of having the that grip.

 

[splitimageview]

Made me look!

Peak 3: High Sensitivity, and Peak color: Red.

Ditto!


I went with a used Z6 a few months ago, essentially new, 6 month warranty from KEH, $800.

After having Fuji the past few years and Sony A7-II a couple of times intermittently. I really like it. The EVF is the same resolution as the X-H1 Fuji that I used to have, which was a great camera, both are from about the same time frame. The viewfinder is better than the Sony which was 2.3mp. The difference is significant with manual focus and peaking.

I have no AF Z lenses, I mostly use Contax Zeiss but also manual focus Nikkors.

Not sure there is much practical difference between the Zf and the Z6 when it comes to using manual focus lenses.

 

[shawn]

They are the Rodney Dangerfield of cameras it seems but if you have a chance to try a used Panasonic S1 or S1R. Gorgeous viewfinder with 5.7m EVF and a 120hz refresh rate which doesn't feel/look like an EVF. Very solid body that isn't tiny and cramped like the A7 series, loads of customization for physical controls and awesome native lenses in L mount along with adapted lenses of course too. Has focus peaking and zoom and zoom can be full frame or picture in picture but with the high resolution EVF I don't typically use either. For those that like shooting alternative ratios they shoot 3:2,4:3,16:9,1:1,65:24 and 2:1. Put a 24mm on it in 65:24 and you have almost exactly the same FOV as the xPan with the 45mm, on the S1R 65:24 is still 26 megapixels.

 

[splitimageview]

I'm interested in looking into an S1 EVF, the R has more res than I need.

How good is the peaking? The camera is quite large and heavy tho, 50% heavier than my Z6 (even weighs more than the medium format Fuji.)

I remember buying the very first mirrorless, the Panny G1, back in 2008.

 

[Freakscene]

They are the Rodney Dangerfield of cameras it seems but if you have a chance to try a used Panasonic S1 or S1R. Gorgeous viewfinder with 5.7m EVF and a 120hz refresh rate which doesn't feel/look like an EVF. Very solid body that isn't tiny and cramped like the A7 series, loads of customization for physical controls and awesome native lenses in L mount along with adapted lenses of course too. Has focus peaking and zoom and zoom can be full frame or picture in picture but with the high resolution EVF I don't typically use either. For those that like shooting alternative ratios they shoot 3:2,4:3,16:9,1:1,65:24 and 2:1. Put a 24mm on it in 65:24 and you have almost exactly the same FOV as the xPan with the 45mm, on the S1R 65:24 is still 26 megapixels.

What happens in the viewfinder when you change the aspect ratio? Does it show a frame in the full frame or blank out outside the changed aspect ratio? What about the raw files? Do they capture the full frame but get cropped and the rest is accessible or are those data dumped?

 

[shawn]

It has 5 sensitivity settings (-2 through +2) and can be set to your choice of one of 10 different colors. You can set it so it is off on AFS and turns on when you flip the switch to MF and you can also assign it to a control. I have mine set for the lower front switch to turn it on or off. I just don't use it that often due to how high the EVFs resolution is.

 

[shawn]

What happens in the viewfinder when you change the aspect ratio? Does it show a frame in the full frame or blank out outside the changed aspect ratio? What about the raw files? Do they capture the full frame but get cropped and the rest is accessible or are those data dumped?

When you shoot in alternative ratios it shows just the AR selected. It also gives you an option of making the border of the frame slightly illuminated which is handy if you are shooting 65:24 with a dark image so that you can see the framing borders against the blacked out sections of the viewfinder/LCD. You can see what it looks like here. I have the AR selections mapped to the V-Mode button on the side of the EVF so I just press the button and either use the D pad or either command dial to change AR.

The RAW file capture the full sensor data but with the crop applied in the EXIF. When you import them into LR it shows the image with the crop but if you press the crop button you see the full sensor data. JPEGs are obviously just the cropped image.

This is what a 65:24 RAW looks like on import.



And this is when you press the crop button.


The 65:24 and 2:1 modes have a couple of weird restrictions on the S1/S1R but they are relatively minor. You can't shoot in motor drive in those aspect ratios and you can't apply the 'filters' in those modes it just jumps back to 3:2. You can still use the Photo Styles (color modes) in them which include the L. Monochrome, L. Monochrome D and L. Monochrome S modes. Three guesses what everyone thinks the 'L' stands for. 😉

The Panny will let you shoot RAW only and still select the alternative ARs. On the Fuji 50R it wouldn't let you do that, you had to shoot RAW+JPEG.

And as an example of how customizable the controls are one of the things that initially annoyed me about the Panny is the location of the play button which requires using your left hand to activate it. Sometimes I like to check what I shot one handed. The Panny let me remap the play button, I ended up putting it on the D pad so I can activate it one handed.

 

[Bolo Kukus]

My favorite way of shooting a MF lens with my X-Pro 2 was to use it in ERF mode with the small window set to just be an enlarged focus point. Shoot RAW and set the camera to monochrome so that the little window was monochrome and set focus peaking to red. I wouldn't even have to look at the little window, just when I see it light up red I knew I was focused.

The EVF implementation varies a lot between cameras in how quickly they react to keep brightness of the EVF consistent, the dynamic range of the EVF, the magnification and the resolution. For something like focus peaking having IBIS makes it much more stable too though I mostly don't use peaking with my S1R as it isn't needed.

The EVF is one reason why I generally shy away from cameras with these. The finder on my XE2 still works well, but I have friends who had the EVFs on their Fujis fail, rendering the cameras virtually useless or imposing an expensive repair on their owners. My XE2 is a good camera but I'm conscious that it's a decade old and that EVF could fail at any time. Not being in a situation to be able to have it replaced or repaired, I will then have to junk the camera.

Shawn has posted many positive points for using EVFs and I am happy to acknowledge all those.

My preference for an optical viewfinder likely brands me as old-fashioned, but another important point for me is an OVF means one less electronic repair, or in my case ceasing to use a camera I greatly enjoy. when it finally renders up its electronic spirit...

 

[Bolo Kukus]

2019, as futuristic as I am.

View attachment 4831993

I never worry about cachet. Just how things work and work for me. If the D800 suits you, don’t worry. At least until the new Nikon looks like something from Buck Rogers. Then I’ll need the new Nikon [joke].

All your good points duly noted. Let's hope we will both be posting here in 2029.... 🙊🙊

 

[Freakscene]

All your good points duly noted. Let's hope we will both be posting here in 2029.... 🙊🙊

I’m of an age where I can reasonably expect to be around in 2029, statistically, but you never know.

In terms of evf longevity, any camera that lasts me 10 years has done its job. Once cameras became consumer electronics, the idea that they would last, for me, became obsolete.

 

[shawn]

The EVF is one reason why I generally shy away from cameras with these. The finder on my XE2 still works well, but I have friends who had the EVFs on their Fujis fail, rendering the cameras virtually useless or imposing an expensive repair on their owners. My XE2 is a good camera but I'm conscious that it's a decade old and that EVF could fail at any time. Not being in a situation to be able to have it replaced or repaired, I will then have to junk the camera.

Shawn has posted many positive points for using EVFs and I am happy to acknowledge all those.

My preference for an optical viewfinder likely brands me as old-fashioned, but another important point for me is an OVF means one less electronic repair, or in my case ceasing to use a camera I greatly enjoy. when it finally renders up its electronic spirit...

I like optical viewfinders too. Not sure about an OVF on a DSLR being one less thing to repair, just that it is a different potential failure point. A DSLR's OVF is a fairly complex electro-mechanical device that has the sync with the shutter. My old D700 died a couple of years ago due to some problem between the shutter and the mirror. It had what should have been a low shutter count for that camera. (40-50k)

 

[sojournerphoto]

Very quick note to agree with everything Shawn says about the S1r. Yes it’s bigger, but I’ve found it superb in use. Comfortable easy to learn. The evf is the first that I have been happy using and it has the advantage that focus clarity is far better than typical dslr’s. My Nikon FM2n has a very good focus screen - dslr’s are designed to be bright and not to focus on.

My experience is that for manual focus in an af world, I’m left with high end evf or rangefinder as the only sensible choices - and I’ve been a diehard ovf fan.

 

[JohnGellings]

The finder on my XE2 still works well, but I have friends who had the EVFs on their Fujis fail, rendering the cameras virtually useless or imposing an expensive repair on their owners. My XE2 is a good camera but I'm conscious that it's a decade old and that EVF could fail at any time. Not being in a situation to be able to have it replaced or repaired, I will then have to junk the camera.

I´ve been a Fuji X user since 2011 and know many people who use them. I have never had an EVF fail or even heard of it as a complaint in the many Fuji forums and groups. In fact, you do not hear of too many cameras at all where the EVF fails by any brand. If your X-E2 does happen to fail, it would be cheaper to replace it than to repair it anyway.