airfrogusmc
Veteran
What I find compelling about your shot is there is a drink in front of her and there is an espresso cup on the other side of the table and now for the real kicker is the guy in the door window coming out. Is he the other person that was at the table drinking espresso and smoking? Who is she texting? And the background is a bit busy but I don't find it overly distracting and maybe necessary because there is a guy that is turning his head back into the frame and that keeps the flow from continuing out of the frame. Nicely done. Probably fits in very nicely in a larger body of work.
I love jazz to but I love the fact I can get med format quality from my MM even at high ISO. When a younger man I shot street occasionally with a 500 C/M and loved the clarity of the larger files and if I were so inclined which I am not I could always degrade the images and add grain and such or go back to shooting 35mm film.
I like Mano's work to and I really like Meyerowitz's color street work.
JChrome
Street Worker
Thanks. This isn't an excuse, but getting the old ladies face in focus would be really tough. Shooting 1/60th of a second with a fuji GW690. The focus throw is really long.
This is really interesting that you said that though. To switch the focus from the background to the foreground. The way the fuji makes me work is to focus on either slow/non-moving items or the background and have a blurry subject which I don't mind.
A quick autofocus like a Nikon F5 or F6 could have got me what you mentioned (shooting at 1600 iso or above). She was moving quickly so shooting 1/250th would have been necessary (or faster).
Or I could have shot with *gasp* digital at 25000 iso and gotten it rather easily...
Coming down to one knee, it would have shifted the perspective of the man's face in the mirror and would make a straight line instead of a triangle... which if compacted like that, might be a bit too much but then again maybe it would have been really interesting.
Good brain food for me thank you
airfrogusmc
Veteran
I think it shows movement, energy and it's moving into the frame. Supporting player and in my opinion not that important to be sharp. In fact I like the movement.
Or if you are shooting manual focus you can use the DoF scales.
Or if you are shooting manual focus you can use the DoF scales.
mfogiel
Veteran
@airfrogusmc
You know, a Bronica RF is really nice for the street, although it only goes down to 1/500th, however I do not think you should be concerned with me - it is obvious that digital has become mainstream, and my film photos are becoming ever more an anachronism. Stay focused on the images. I see that you are looking for photos that have immediate graphic impact - nothing wrong with that, but a bit of human emotion can make the images deeper, even if it is subtle, like this look of desire mixed with resignation that i perceive here:
201410617 by mfogiel, on Flickr
You know, a Bronica RF is really nice for the street, although it only goes down to 1/500th, however I do not think you should be concerned with me - it is obvious that digital has become mainstream, and my film photos are becoming ever more an anachronism. Stay focused on the images. I see that you are looking for photos that have immediate graphic impact - nothing wrong with that, but a bit of human emotion can make the images deeper, even if it is subtle, like this look of desire mixed with resignation that i perceive here:
201410617 by mfogiel, on Flickr
airfrogusmc
Veteran
I love film and the look of film but I also really like digital and love the look and the information in the files I get from my MM.
I've seen this before and maybe just a bit obvious for my taste but that's personal. Great timing and I really like the way the railing pulls the two together. I also like the dark against the light background. This could work with the other image in a larger body of work. Maybe something about woman or relationships? Maybe a much bigger statement on society is in these?
I've seen this before and maybe just a bit obvious for my taste but that's personal. Great timing and I really like the way the railing pulls the two together. I also like the dark against the light background. This could work with the other image in a larger body of work. Maybe something about woman or relationships? Maybe a much bigger statement on society is in these?
airfrogusmc
Veteran
BTW I am a fan of sjones work. Seek it out if you haven't already seen it.
sjones
Established
Yeah, if I ever get to the point of holding an exhibit, then some external consultation could certainly prove invaluable (will you be available by the way). But at the current stage, I’m happy to avoid the unfiltered Internet murmur.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
fotographz
Established
Ok let's try this. I'll put myself out there. I prefer to post one of my own for a couple of reason. First and foremost I don't feel comfortable posting someone else's work for this purpose and two I know why I took it. Not that I think this is anything spectacular but i do think it works on several levels. I will first talk some about it and include some of the critique that was given. I showed this in out last session.
What caught my eye is when she was starting to walk by I noticed all the stripes. (repeating shapes) and the the guys watching her. I waited until she got to an interesting point in the frame and I took the image.
So what makes this work for me is she is young and from the side she is hold the jacket you don't know if she is yet a woman. The guys looking and the reflection clearly shows that she is. Then you see the advertising poster that in the window that is what advertisers show as the perfect woman. So it I think it works on a visual level with all the repeating shapes (the stripes which are everywhere) and it starts to say a little bit about who we are as a society. Now whether it has any real merit I will leave to the others.
So let's hear your views. Like, hate whatever. HAVE AT IT...
Balance, there is amazing balance here. Two girls real and reflected not watching at all. Two men one standing one sitting watching the girl. Strips and black and white panels of the entrance. Single image of woman off-center watching...all of them. But what I saw first and I'm always attracted too in any black and white photograph is the graphic flow of the image which can be a visual smack to the face or shuttle shaded caress. A great photograph will grab you and visually communicate this...have you coming back to discover other details.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
Thanks Frank..
fotographz
Established
...I might add: This photograph reminds of the image in Rome of the young woman walking down the street through a gauntlet of cat-calling Italian men.
She unlike the girl here had this worried look on here face.
One of the things I hope for this forum is for us all to open our eyes up
a little more, hopefully some hesitant to post their images will start to do so.
I know I can always learn something new...and often don't know I'll like something until I see it.
cheers
airfrogusmc
Veteran
First thanks again. That would be the Ruth Orkin photo?
Totally agree about we need to see more of those that are a little hesitant. Hopefully more folks will join in.
I think I said this earlier, every singe time I get a little narrow in my thinking something comes along that changes my opinion. The day I stop learning and growing is the day I put down the cameras.
Great forum BTW.
FrankS
Registered User
It's such a tough crowd here lately though!
airfrogusmc
Veteran
LoL it always is. Come on Frank, ya know ya wanna...
airfrogusmc
Veteran
Hey Frank S I thought you would have thrown up something?
FrankS
Registered User
tstermitz
Well-known
My attention was caught by HSG's initial framing concerning whether street photography has rules, a question that comes up in many art forms. In my view, rules are necessary and foundational, because the without rules you are just left with chaos. That doesn't mean you have to follow rules, but ignorance is not the same as artistic license. If you don't know the rules, how can you rebel against them.
Chaos is boring.
The world is full of entropy. A photographer artist chooses a time, place and point of view to organize that "decisive moment" and call our attention to it. So you better put some thought into it or why would anybody care? You can have a thousand monkeys shooting a thousand flicker accounts and never come within a thousand parsecs of a great photograph like HCB's "Bali, 1949". The linked article by Adam Marelli points out how HCB used his mastery of the rules of composition to make that photograph work.
HCB's training in formal composition does enable him to dance around the rules when he wants to.
Chaos is boring.
The world is full of entropy. A photographer artist chooses a time, place and point of view to organize that "decisive moment" and call our attention to it. So you better put some thought into it or why would anybody care? You can have a thousand monkeys shooting a thousand flicker accounts and never come within a thousand parsecs of a great photograph like HCB's "Bali, 1949". The linked article by Adam Marelli points out how HCB used his mastery of the rules of composition to make that photograph work.
HCB's training in formal composition does enable him to dance around the rules when he wants to.
airfrogusmc
Veteran
I believe that the photographers like Bresson and many other greats are/were not so much about rules as they were about being very fluent in the language that they communicate with. Learning to communicate is not about rules and frees you from rules and brings clarity to chaos. Bresson refers to it as a developed instinct. Understanding how to use the language is a journey and and far along the path you are can determine how much you see in your own work and the work of others.
The greats were all master at visual communication and the more fluent one is at that that the more free they are from rules. Understanding how to use line, shape, color, tone etc is key. No before someone say those are rules understand that what can work in A fails miserably in B. Example would be certain lines with certain colors in photo A create a feel and the composition creates a balance the creates a harmony with the subject. In photo B that same combo creates tension with the subject because the subject t is different. That is way over simplified but these things can take a very long time to master and become part of a developed instinct and in this fast world that is not a popular notion.
You become good at this by looking at paintings, sculpture, photographs and other art forms. Seeing what works and what doesn't and then trying to figure out what works for you. Learn about color theory and two dimensional design. The more you learn the less you realize that this is about rules and more about using visual tools to express yourself.
A great photographer once told me that either everything in your photograph is helping your visual statement and if those things are helping the photograph then the are hurting it.
Here's what some of the masters had to say about it and they were all masters at visual language and visual communication.
"Photography is not a sport. It has no rules. Everything must be dared and tried!" - Bill Brandt
"There are no rules and regulations for perfect composition. If there were we would be able to put all the information into a computer and would come out with a masterpiece. We know that's impossible. You have to compose by the seat of your pants." - Arnold Newman
"When subject matter is forced to fit into preconceived patterns, there can be no freshness of vision. Following rules of composition can only lead to a tedious repetition of pictorial cliches." - Edward Weston
Maybe my favorite
"Anything that excites me, for any reason, I will photograph: not searching for unusual subject matter but making the commonplace unusual, nor indulging in extraordinary technique to attract attention. Work only when desire to the point of necessity impels – then do it honestly. Then so called “composition” becomes a personal thing, to be developed along with technique, as a personal way of seeing." - Edward Weston
"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs." - Ansel Adams
"To compose a subject well means no more than to see and present it in the strongest manner possible." - Edward Weston
"And in not learning the rules, I was free. I always say, you're either defined by the medium or you redefine the medium in terms of your needs." - Duane Michals
"What I write here is a description of what I have come to understand about photography, from photographing and from looking at photographs. A work of art is that thing whose form and content are organic to the tools and materials that made it. Still photography is a chemical, mechanical process. Literal description or the illusion of literal description, is what the tools and materials of still photography do better than any other graphic medium. A still photograph is the illusion of a literal description of how a camera saw a piece of time and space. Understanding this, one can postulate the following theorem: Anything and all things are photographable. A photograph can only look like how the camera saw what was photographed. Or, how the camera saw the piece of time and space is responsible for how the photograph looks. Therefore, a photograph can look any way. Or, there's no way a photograph has to look (beyond being an illusion of a literal description). Or, there are no external or abstract or preconceived rules of design that can apply to still photographs. I like to think of photographing as a two-way act of respect. Respect for the medium, by letting it do what it does best, describe. And respect for the subject, by describing as it is. A photograph must be responsible to both." - Garry Winogrand
The greats were all master at visual communication and the more fluent one is at that that the more free they are from rules. Understanding how to use line, shape, color, tone etc is key. No before someone say those are rules understand that what can work in A fails miserably in B. Example would be certain lines with certain colors in photo A create a feel and the composition creates a balance the creates a harmony with the subject. In photo B that same combo creates tension with the subject because the subject t is different. That is way over simplified but these things can take a very long time to master and become part of a developed instinct and in this fast world that is not a popular notion.
You become good at this by looking at paintings, sculpture, photographs and other art forms. Seeing what works and what doesn't and then trying to figure out what works for you. Learn about color theory and two dimensional design. The more you learn the less you realize that this is about rules and more about using visual tools to express yourself.
A great photographer once told me that either everything in your photograph is helping your visual statement and if those things are helping the photograph then the are hurting it.
Here's what some of the masters had to say about it and they were all masters at visual language and visual communication.
"Photography is not a sport. It has no rules. Everything must be dared and tried!" - Bill Brandt
"There are no rules and regulations for perfect composition. If there were we would be able to put all the information into a computer and would come out with a masterpiece. We know that's impossible. You have to compose by the seat of your pants." - Arnold Newman
"When subject matter is forced to fit into preconceived patterns, there can be no freshness of vision. Following rules of composition can only lead to a tedious repetition of pictorial cliches." - Edward Weston
Maybe my favorite
"Anything that excites me, for any reason, I will photograph: not searching for unusual subject matter but making the commonplace unusual, nor indulging in extraordinary technique to attract attention. Work only when desire to the point of necessity impels – then do it honestly. Then so called “composition” becomes a personal thing, to be developed along with technique, as a personal way of seeing." - Edward Weston
"There are no rules for good photographs, there are only good photographs." - Ansel Adams
"To compose a subject well means no more than to see and present it in the strongest manner possible." - Edward Weston
"And in not learning the rules, I was free. I always say, you're either defined by the medium or you redefine the medium in terms of your needs." - Duane Michals
"What I write here is a description of what I have come to understand about photography, from photographing and from looking at photographs. A work of art is that thing whose form and content are organic to the tools and materials that made it. Still photography is a chemical, mechanical process. Literal description or the illusion of literal description, is what the tools and materials of still photography do better than any other graphic medium. A still photograph is the illusion of a literal description of how a camera saw a piece of time and space. Understanding this, one can postulate the following theorem: Anything and all things are photographable. A photograph can only look like how the camera saw what was photographed. Or, how the camera saw the piece of time and space is responsible for how the photograph looks. Therefore, a photograph can look any way. Or, there's no way a photograph has to look (beyond being an illusion of a literal description). Or, there are no external or abstract or preconceived rules of design that can apply to still photographs. I like to think of photographing as a two-way act of respect. Respect for the medium, by letting it do what it does best, describe. And respect for the subject, by describing as it is. A photograph must be responsible to both." - Garry Winogrand
Sparrow
Veteran
... they'er more like guidelines actually ... and I've noticed over my years on the interweb it is usually the people who haven't bothered learning about aesthetics and perception who advise breaking or ignoring them
Michael Markey
Veteran
“The eye should learn to listen before it looks.”
― Robert Frank
― Robert Frank