Who? Never heard of them....

By no means should the history of photography be centered only on the US.. Remember, Frank was not born in the US.. Photography wasn't invented here, though Beaumont Newhall would have loved it if you thought it was. Sure, one should read Newhall's history, but there is a reason it was constantly updated, and not only for contemporary photographers. He purposefully left out certain people who he and his friend Ansel deemed "unworthy". If one needs a better read of photo history, I would turn to Helmut Gernsheim.
 
In Bernardo Bertolucci's "Before the Revolution" 1964, an admonition is famously made, "One cannot live without Rossellini!"

I think we really should be more cautious about slinging words like "famous" around. I don't know anyone who's watched "Before the Revolution", apart from myself and my wife, when we were on a foreign film jag in the 'seventies.

As to the phrase itself, I could certainly live without Roberto and so, I'm reasonably sure, could 99.9999% of the world's population.
 
By no means should the history of photography be centered only on the US.. Remember, Frank was not born in the US.. Photography wasn't invented here, though Beaumont Newhall would have loved it if you thought it was. Sure, one should read Newhall's history, but there is a reason it was constantly updated, and not only for contemporary photographers. He purposefully left out certain people who he and his friend Ansel deemed "unworthy". If one needs a better read of photo history, I would turn to Helmut Gernsheim.

Frank was not american but the work he is famous for is about america. HCB's decisive moment is again an american invention it was used by an american publisher. If you haven't come to the attention of the american art circle or press you are a nobody sad as this sounds.
 
I think we really should be more cautious about slinging words like "famous" around. I don't know anyone who's watched "Before the Revolution", apart from myself and my wife, when we were on a foreign film jag in the 'seventies.

As to the phrase itself, I could certainly live without Roberto and so, I'm reasonably sure, could 99.9999% of the world's population.

Rosellini wasn't a bad director and without him no Isabella Rosellini which would be a sad thing for photography. 🙂
 
Showed an America.... didn't Bourke White do that some 20 years earlier I mean "The Time of the Louisville Flood- Margaret Bourke-White-1937" is for me still the single best image to destroy the american myth of equality and standard of living. The Aesthetic okay but would Frank be as famous had he demystified the Swiss I think not the whole view of important photographers is America Centric and based on Szarkowki and Newhall. Both extremely overrated individuals imo

b-w_living-1937-bread-lind-during-louisville-flood2.jpg

That's brilliant too... but Frank's version of America was very loose and not as formal as hers and was a full series from a non-american (the right niche at the right time, though it took time to catch on).

I tend to be less cynical about photography... I feel that many photographers and curators that people think are overrated are just not to someone's taste.
 
Ok, and...how are his pictures? You can know nothing about the history of photography and take great images or know everything and not being able to take a mugshot.

GLF
 
That's brilliant too... but Frank's version of America was very loose and not as formal as hers and was a full series from a non-american. I tend to be less cynical about photography... I feel that many photographers and curators that people think are overrated are just not to someone's taste.

I personally like Frank and have copy of his book but I am also fully aware that had he made a book about Switzerland nobody would care about it. America has gained in art market power since 1980's before that Ansel Adams was known but not a god for european photographers, the same thing applies to Szarkowski and his choice of great photographers. Just take a look at the british photoscene in the 1950's and 1960's they were brilliant yet how many people know british photographers whose first name is not David. The same thing applies to France and Germany. Also how many Sowjet photographers except for Rodschenko do we know basically none. It's not the americans/US fault it's europes fault that we stopped thinking for ourselves.
 
I personally like Frank and have copy of his book but I am also fully aware that had he made a book about Switzerland nobody would care about it.

I can agree with this. I've checked out and own a few other things from him that just don't do it for me really.

America has gained in art market power since 1980's before that Ansel Adams was known but not a god for european photographers, the same thing applies to Szarkowski and his choice of great photographers. Just take a look at the british photoscene in the 1950's and 1960's they were brilliant yet how many people know british photographers whose first name is not David.

Admittedly, I don't know them myself... well, except Tony Ray-Jones. Can you name some so I can check them out?
 
I can agree with this. I've checked out and own a few other things from him that just don't do it for me really.



Admittedly, I don't know them myself... well, except Tony Ray-Jones. Can you name some so I can check them out?

Some 15 years ago I saw an exibition in Leica Gallery (while visiting NY) called soemthing like "Thru British eyes" and was impressed.
For the life of me cannot remember names though.
 
John Deakin, Edith Tudor-Hart (granted she was before that time), Jane Brown, Fay Goodwin these are the ones that come immediately to my mind but there are many more. Roger probably knows more about british photographers and I hope he has a better memory than I do.
 
Frank was not american but the work he is famous for is about america. HCB's decisive moment is again an american invention it was used by an american publisher. If you haven't come to the attention of the american art circle or press you are a nobody sad as this sounds.

Stieglitz', his gallery, and Paul Strand might be responsible for this. Stieglitz used his gallery to introduce to the United States some of the most avant-garde European artists of the time, including Matisse, Rodin, Rousseau, Cézanne, Picasso, Brâncuși, Picabia and Duchamp. Strand was in Europe, and was Stieglitz' eyes.
 
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
George Santayana, about a hundred years ago.

There is an argument to be made for the fresh, unencumbered eye, the naive look. And it would be more than interesting to see how a khoisan hunter, a Yanomamo matron, or an Aboriginal kid tackles photography.

People who have easy access to photographic equipment, however, are steeped in a culture of visual artifacts. Advertising, television, cinema... All these myriad images are directly or indirectly indebted to the innovators and grandmasters of the past, wether it be photography or painting.

One could argue that it is the visual culture that counts, and not the names of the photographers, just as one does not need to know the name of the singer to appreciate the song. From that point of view, it does not matter who invented how to carve a vine leaf and a bunch of grapes, what matters is that one knows how to do this.

But in a world where we are bombarded with zillions of images, for a photographer, it should at least be interesting to know how our craft was forged. At the least to avoid blatant plagiarism. Most of all, it informs and enriches, one learns from the old forgotten masters, even from their faults. How could one truly appreciate HCB, without knowing about Eisenstaedt, Capa, Frank, Eisenstein and Lartigue?

In the early sixties, my father subscribed (from Belgium!) to the 'Famous Photographers' mail order course. Irving Penn, Richard Avedon and Alfred Eisenstaedt, among others, were his tutors, 'at a distance'. I feel so incredibly lucky to have had those images spooned in as a toddler. This is what has taught me how to read an image, how to asses the aesthetic possibilities of a scene. (ok, I'm not very good at it, often lazy or stupid and just shoot whatever is in front of me)

I'll admit there is not much logic here, more of a belly feel, but I think it is essential to learn from the past. One does learn from someone else's mistakes.

By the way, has everyone forgotten Bill Brandt?
 
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Having just taken an introductory photography course last quarter at UC Santa Cruz, I can safely say I recognize the names and their works. The midterm and final exams had us matching works to artists, but most students seemed to be only memorizing them to pass. I'm glad I delved a little further into the diverse list of artists we were given. I didn't know much about history before the course, and I found that I loved the works of those you mentioned! Another favorite I learned of was Elliot Erwitt, with his absurd compositions, as well as Eggleston. Sadly, I noted that a lot of my peers held the same views mentioned in the first post.
 
. . . My reference to "friends" was -- "everyone" who went to college in the '60s and '70s watched Rossellini. . . .
Again -- no they didn't. This is a very parochial view. I was on the panel for Birmingham University Film Society. No doubt there were devoted fans but I wasn't among them. Nor were enough people to make the name known.

Cheers,

R.
 
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