Why Can't People Be Honest? And Nice?

In general I like PN, I very rarely post on the Leica forum as I don't have a Leica but they were helpful when I asked about my Zorki with a scratched 50mm industar. I often read the Leica forum and it can get out of hand sometimes but so can anywhere. I tend to stick to the wedding forum, the B&W forums and the Nikon forum mostly and those are friendly enough. As with any forum you will always find some idiots.
 
I don't post on PNet but visit for its entertainment value. I generally find that the unruly crowd is loud enough and pushy enough to define the tone of the forum. Or at least the Leica forum, which is the one that has the most interest to me.
 
Another case in point. I was having a photoshop problem. I posted the question on the RFF. Nobody said "get out your coloring books", "buy Roxio", "if you can't use it, you shouldn't own it". Just a bunch of helpful answers and a pm from Keith, with his home phone number. I called and he walked me through it. I'll be the first to admit that I go to pnet and read, but wouldn't dare post a question. As far as buying and selling. I think that since everyone here sort of knows each other, you're more likely to get a fair shake. For some reason this forum attracts a more helpful group of people. I still belong over at pnet. I just hope their moderators can clean up the act. Or we can send Bill Mattocks over there to clean it up for them! Anyway, I'm glad this place is here.
 
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I use to follow p-net also. It is a lot grittier there with more pointless smart guy answers then I could put up with. There is a lot of good information there if you take the time to filter it out. I once posted a link to a Calvin and Hobbes strip and two guys ended up getting into a flame war (not directed at me) about color renditon or something. My favorite diatribe is the thread about converting a Polaroid camera to a different back. One person is trying to explain how to do it while fending off an attack by someone who claims to have patent rights to the conversion. Pretty entertaining if you have a half an hour to read the thread. And the conversion is pretty tempting, too.

Most of the posts I have seen here are civil and most of the banter are among those who I guess are on friendly terms.

Eric
 
You know, I had an evening to think about this. I hope I don't tick anybody off, but I prolly will.

Some people prefer wine bars, and some prefer honky-tonks. I like both.

For those who do not prefer the atmosphere of PN - don't go there! Would you stroll into a rowdy bar and expect them to put a little Yanni on the Jukebox and light some incense and think pure thoughts? You think they have maybe Feng Shui pool tables?

Everything according to its nature, yes?

To me, the greatest surprise is that ya'll are surprised when you find the occasional intelligent conversation there. Just because we like a good dust-up and expect people to be able to give as good as they get does not mean Voltaire is not quoted or that we have no appreciation for a good Chateau Lafite 1982. I can listen to Merle Haggard while drying my negs just like I can listen to Thelonius Monk on Blue Note (he was from Rocky Mount, by the way, just 10 miles from me).

Decent people live in mobile homes and mansions. Honest people drink Jack Daniels and sip Knockdhu single malt Scotch. Enjoying a good brawl doesn't make us any less intellectually capable or honest.

If you hang out on PN, get a helmet and get on with it. Or find a quieter corner if that's not your thing. Life goes on. Like I said - I like both. I hang out here more for the S/N ratio being better.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
Well put Bill.
I like PNet, RFF, the Leica Customer Forum and Lightstalkers too. Actually it's the UK, RPS forum, which i find the weakest - i might get flack for this but comments like "great! but it could be sharper" are pointless in a forum where the Royal Photographic Society prides itself on quality imaging and tutorial support.
I'll get my coat.
 
>>Chateau Lafite 1982<<

C'mon, Bill. Lefite's so lame that year. Mission Haut Brion just rocked in '82, IMHO. And don't even get me started on the freakin' Bouquet!
 
VinceC said:
>>Chateau Lafite 1982<<

C'mon, Bill. Lefite's so lame that year. Mission Haut Brion just rocked in '82, IMHO. And don't even get me started on the freakin' Bouquet!
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Would you prefer a Mouton '82, then?

I'll still take Willie Nelson and a Jack and Coke, most times.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
jan normandale said:
@ Bill ... totally OT but Keith Emerson started with the Nice....
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And look where it got him.

Anyway, I've got The Knack. And while I may be awhile in climbing that Mountain, I'll try to remember to Mott the Hoople when I get there. Should I give a Fugs? Einstein said that MC5, didn't he? Well, don't get the Blues Magoos, be of Blue Cheer. I need to stop now, I'm Slade.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
It's nice to be nice unless you're bad, in which case it's nice to be bad - James Cameron (childrens comedian).

I had a father and son moment a few weeks ago. My 12 year old asked me a question and didn't like the answer and we had a chat. I gave him the benefit of mature years (... er) and told him that if you ask you have to expect some people to answer in a way you don't expect or want. That's life, ho hum, but if the answer is given rudely or agrressively then it's not OK.

I have a colleague who often says it's not a stupid question if you don't know the answer. I like that and sort of wish that those inclined towards ridicule and abuse could work that thought into their programme. I think a pile of sarky comments says a lot about those providing them and nothing about the questioner.

RFF suffers a lot less than many other spaces from the above which is one reason why I like it.
 
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There's a common saying among journalists that there's no such thing as a stupid question. It's never the questions themselves that get us in trouble but the wrong assumptions that prevent us from asking the right questions.
 
The guy who posted the original question took the flak from guys who would rather see lenses used than collected. Maybe their ire was misdirected but it wasn't malicious, imo. We've all seen lenses driven to ridiculously high prices because of internet hype. The way I read it was that a lot of people resent turning tools into high-priced knick-knacks. I'm not sure why but this guy's question irked me too. You got a perfectly good lens so go out and use it. Stop bragging/complaining to me about it.
 
Hmmm.

I try, I really do. But sometimes, even if the user is brand-new on RFF, I wonder how lazy they must be to post "Hey, did you hear? There's no more Rodinal!" I mean, there are eleventy dozen threads on the subject here. A simple search would have shown them that. Must we 'be nice' as we AGAIN trot out all the alternatives, as well as the fact that Rodinal production HAS started again?

Or the person who asks - innocently - how to do this or that. And they are answered, patiently, and given links to more information. But they won't read the links, they want someone else to read them and explain it to them. And then they're attached to you for life, and won't read, learn, or do anything - you must 'splain it to them first. I wonder how these people have jobs and supposedly own houses and stuff.

I started on Usenet, lo, these many years ago. And I used to be somewhat put off over the answers I sometimes got - "RTFM!" or "Asked and answered" with a link to a previous thread, or a simple link to a FAQ. Why would they bother to post, if they're just going to be nasty? It took a long time for me to realize that they are constantly besieged with 'newb' questions - and that there *is* an FAQ, and that newbs, even knowing that - sometimes just refuse to consult it. How many times does a person have to answer the same question, over and over, when new users apparently cannot find or make use of the 'search' function to look and see if anyone has maybe asked the question before?

How about the rare-but-sometimes-seen thread that starts "I heard about RF cameras, and I think they suck. Convince me why I should buy one!" I mean, my first thought is to paddle their butts and send them home crying with their digicam.

But hey. This is RFF, and people here are nice. Sometimes a tad 'too' nice, but I can live with that. Better than too rude.

Best Regards,

Bill Mattocks
 
Why Can't People Be Honest? And Nice?

I think the answer in my case is that when I am being nice I am not being honest, and when I am being honest I am not being nice.

I think Bill is right about people here on rff being "too" nice. Sometimes you get "too much sugar for your dime" here.


Wayne
 
bmattock said:
Hmmm.

I try, I really do. But sometimes, even if the user is brand-new on RFF, I wonder how lazy they must be to post "(insert lame question here)!"
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Hi there RFF people,

I just heard of fotogruphy and have some questions to ask. I want to be famous and make lots of money.

First, what do I need to get started?
Second, what kind of pictures should I take?
Third, do you think I'm smart enough to do this?
Fourth, How much money will I need?
Fifth, why do they call liquor bottles "fifths"?

I'm really happy to have found RFF -- the Really Friendly Fotogruphy site and look forward to your well-informed answers. Oh, give me the answers within the next 5 minutes.
 
Being honest in reply to a new member asking an oft repeated question is one thing, being deliberately rude and obnoxious is another.
 
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