Bertram2
Gone elsewhere
I found that imbalance thread last night, was too tired to read it all or to contribute, bookmarked it in my browser went to bed and now came back an hour ago. I read not all but a lot of the contributions , thought about it and had an idea for a more relaxed POV for this imbalance perception, which seems to exist for quite a bunch of the members ,at least it is an interesting issue, as the number of hits proves,related to the runtime of the thread. First when I tried to post I noticed the thread was closed.
I cannot see why it was closed, there was nothing indecent , nothing gotten off hands and there was no tendency visible which could had anybody let assume this would happen sooner or later. There was spoken about the arrogance of the owner, a certain kind of silly posts were criticised by Bill Mattock, who wrote about the guys with the "second APO Cron Nokton Hyper Uber Super Whiffdoodle", did that hit the nerve of one of those who complain with PMs to the mods usually ?
Whatever the reason was , and no matter WHO closed the thread, I read the stuff , I thought about it and now I see I have no longer the right to speak.
Not that I had found the thread beeing especially well thought or that this imbalance issue would really concern me, I take RFF as what it is, what it necessarily must be considering the given forum structure.
But to see how selectively a basic right is given and suddenly taken back then, that is ennervating. It gives me the feeling that no sort of criticism is really welcome here, no matter if is silly or constructive. It is seen as negative per se and as de-structive.Praise this forum or shut up ?
A closed thread always is first of all a declaration of bancruptcy, it says "we could not handle it anymore !"
This is discussable if some nerds can't stop bullsh*tting on each other publicly but even in this case it would be better to fire them , better than taking back the right to speak for ALL members.
Closed threads or, even worse , completey deleted threads make me feel pushed around, incapacitated, as if one could not trust in my manners, disregarded in a very basic personal way. Maybe I should give up in general to contribute to any discussions here.
bertram
I cannot see why it was closed, there was nothing indecent , nothing gotten off hands and there was no tendency visible which could had anybody let assume this would happen sooner or later. There was spoken about the arrogance of the owner, a certain kind of silly posts were criticised by Bill Mattock, who wrote about the guys with the "second APO Cron Nokton Hyper Uber Super Whiffdoodle", did that hit the nerve of one of those who complain with PMs to the mods usually ?
Whatever the reason was , and no matter WHO closed the thread, I read the stuff , I thought about it and now I see I have no longer the right to speak.
Not that I had found the thread beeing especially well thought or that this imbalance issue would really concern me, I take RFF as what it is, what it necessarily must be considering the given forum structure.
But to see how selectively a basic right is given and suddenly taken back then, that is ennervating. It gives me the feeling that no sort of criticism is really welcome here, no matter if is silly or constructive. It is seen as negative per se and as de-structive.Praise this forum or shut up ?
A closed thread always is first of all a declaration of bancruptcy, it says "we could not handle it anymore !"
This is discussable if some nerds can't stop bullsh*tting on each other publicly but even in this case it would be better to fire them , better than taking back the right to speak for ALL members.
Closed threads or, even worse , completey deleted threads make me feel pushed around, incapacitated, as if one could not trust in my manners, disregarded in a very basic personal way. Maybe I should give up in general to contribute to any discussions here.
bertram
FrankS
Registered User
"But to see how selectively a basic right is given and suddenly taken back then, that is ennervating."
There is the flaw in your argument.
There is the flaw in your argument.
Solinar
Analog Preferred
Are referring to the "memory hole" Citizen Bertram? It doesn't exist.
My guess is someone probably wrote something that they were embarrassed about after reading it later onand contacted Big Brother to have it deleted - or - the moderator decided to .....
My guess is someone probably wrote something that they were embarrassed about after reading it later onand contacted Big Brother to have it deleted - or - the moderator decided to .....
Last edited:
Kim Coxon
Moderator
Hi Betram,
I closed the thread. Some of the reasons are covered in the thread here http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=315709#post315709
In nearly all respects, I couldn't agree with you more. It would only be in a last resort that I would close a thread. If there is an offensive post, it is better to deal with that rather than close the post. However, sometimes when things have prgressed too far, deleting a string of posts detracts so much from the thread that it might be better to let that particular thread die. The discussion can always be reopened in another thread.
It is a shame when the actions of a few detract from the pleasure of many but in closing the thread, I meant you no disrespect and indeed usually look forward to your views,
Kim
I closed the thread. Some of the reasons are covered in the thread here http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?p=315709#post315709
In nearly all respects, I couldn't agree with you more. It would only be in a last resort that I would close a thread. If there is an offensive post, it is better to deal with that rather than close the post. However, sometimes when things have prgressed too far, deleting a string of posts detracts so much from the thread that it might be better to let that particular thread die. The discussion can always be reopened in another thread.
It is a shame when the actions of a few detract from the pleasure of many but in closing the thread, I meant you no disrespect and indeed usually look forward to your views,
Kim
Andrew Sowerby
Well-known
Solinar said:
You can always delete or edit your posts.
Bertram2
Gone elsewhere
FrankS said:
Yes, we had this thing with the "right" often enuff, replace right by permission and you will know what I mean. Sometimes I have it, and sometimes I don't. I do not accept a mod as a moral instance . I do accept mods as the guys who supervise the rules.
But staying within these rules they shall leave me alone, I don't want to get censored depending on a personal perception or opinion ! A close thread is censorship, and I am the victim tho it did not post there at all !
Or shall I understand your objection in a way that I have to expect a kinda despotism here anyway simply beacause this is not MY forum.? That I have to accept EVERYTHING therefore.?
If so we would really differ at this point.
bertram
FrankS
Registered User
Bertram, I just stated the fact that this is a private forum where members participate with Jorge's consent, I didn't state my opinion on this point. How do you know we disagree?
Bertram2
Gone elsewhere
Kim Coxon said:
Kim ,
this deleting of the own posts within a thread is a really an annoying thing and can kill a thread indeed.
This feature should be turned off ! Reading contributions referring to parts of deleted posts is more than strange, it perforates the whole thread and and makes it worthless. Just another kinda censorship, from member to member.
If I say something which I consider later as not beeing adequate I can SAY this too.
Wiping it off does not make it unsaid anyway.
bertram
Bertram2
Gone elsewhere
FrankS said:Bertram, I just stated the fact that this is a private forum where members participate with Jorge's consent, I didn't state my opinion on this point. How do you know we disagree?
Hmm... I think I got you now.
bertram
Kim Coxon
Moderator
I fully agree but that is up to Jorge. Only he can change those settings. It is also why I locked that thread instead of deleting the relevant posts. I don't like censorship and in an ideal world we wouldn't need it. If everyone treated everyone else with respect, there would be no need - nor would there be a need for laws, prisons for those that break those laws or wars. Unfortunately, the world is not a perfect place and often it is the choice of choosing the lesser of two evils.
Kim
Kim
Bertram2 said:
RJBender
RFF Sponsoring Member
Bertram2 said:I found that imbalance thread last night, was too tired to read it all or to contribute, bookmarked it in my browser went to bed and now came back an hour ago. I read not all but a lot of the contributions , thought about it and had an idea for a more relaxed POV for this imbalance perception, which seems to exist for quite a bunch of the members ,at least it is an interesting issue, as the number of hits proves,related to the runtime of the thread. First when I tried to post I noticed the thread was closed.
I cannot see why it was closed, there was nothing indecent , nothing gotten off hands and there was no tendency visible which could had anybody let assume this would happen sooner or later. There was spoken about the arrogance of the owner, a certain kind of silly posts were criticised by Bill Mattock, who wrote about the guys with the "second APO Cron Nokton Hyper Uber Super Whiffdoodle", did that hit the nerve of one of those who complain with PMs to the mods usually ?
Whatever the reason was , and no matter WHO closed the thread, I read the stuff , I thought about it and now I see I have no longer the right to speak.
Not that I had found the thread beeing especially well thought or that this imbalance issue would really concern me, I take RFF as what it is, what it necessarily must be considering the given forum structure.
But to see how selectively a basic right is given and suddenly taken back then, that is ennervating. It gives me the feeling that no sort of criticism is really welcome here, no matter if is silly or constructive. It is seen as negative per se and as de-structive.Praise this forum or shut up ?
A closed thread always is first of all a declaration of bancruptcy, it says "we could not handle it anymore !"
This is discussable if some nerds can't stop bullsh*tting on each other publicly but even in this case it would be better to fire them , better than taking back the right to speak for ALL members.
Closed threads or, even worse , completey deleted threads make me feel pushed around, incapacitated, as if one could not trust in my manners, disregarded in a very basic personal way. Maybe I should give up in general to contribute to any discussions here.
bertram
I agree with you, Bertram. The only email notification I received on Kim's "Negative Posting" thread was your 'far out' post. Now it's been deleted and I have no clue why Jorge made that decision.
R.J.
RJBender
RFF Sponsoring Member
copake_ham said:
Thanks, George. Now that all the posts have been deleted, I can't see what prompted Jorge to delete the thread.
R.J.
P
Pecker
Guest
RJBender said:
Some excellent discussion took place on that thread and no doubt many contributors put a great deal of energy into their well considered contributions. Now all of that is lost; why should the thoughts and opinions of many be lost forever because of the indiscretions of a few? The recent heavy-handed autocratic censorship is really out of control. There seems to be plenty of lunacy on the forum to go around as of late and the administrators certainly are not exempt; for Christ's sake you, moderators as well as the "Big Cheese," should be leading by example and not stooping to the base level of the worst offenders. I haven't posted in over five months and in that time this place has gone to Hell in a hand cart. In expressing my contrary opinion I probably have now made the "hit-list" (of those to be "banned"...remember McCarthy?) and in truth I could care less -- do as you will.
Paul T.
Veteran
Am I the only one who doesn't care about this at all? Didn't realise my personal outrage bar was set so high...
plenty of things annoy me in life, but not this, and I find accusations of McCarthyism tasteless considering the real political repression around the world.
plenty of things annoy me in life, but not this, and I find accusations of McCarthyism tasteless considering the real political repression around the world.
Bertram2
Gone elsewhere
Pecker said:
Well that's been exactly my point, and now it happens again, even a mods thread is closed . Because of insults ? I had seen only one offense, and this one came from a guy who comes here only to tell us how great another forum is and how bad this one.
What happened with the "Imbalance" thread and the Negative posting" thread makes clear how the moderation is thought, it's about cleaning selectively the communities memory.
One might find this totalitarian or not, one can speak about who has which "rights" or not, in any case it shows very little respect for all members in general, even for those who pay..
I made my conclusions and I made my decisions.
I will retire from this forum NOW, and I will think about the question if it makes sense for me to spent time and brain on posts and threads in this forum and if I shall leave my gallery up. Or if I would not better blow myself out of the collective memory of this forum.
bertram
Bertram2
Gone elsewhere
Paul T. said:
Maybe this is all a bit too difficult for you, or maybe you are anyway used too much to disrespectful treatment, whatever , you did not get at all what it is about here.
.And what the "real political repression around the world" shall contribute to this discussion here, no clue. Your contribution is a kinda mental fastfood, but at least we know now where your outrage bar is set. Thanks for telling.
Andy K
Well-known
What was so 'offensive' about the imbalance thread that got it deleted? It made a fair point without being rude to anyone. There were no insults at all, no profanity, just people discussing the forum.
Deleting that thread seems to have caused much more bad feeling than if it had been left alone.
Deleting that thread seems to have caused much more bad feeling than if it had been left alone.
S
Socke
Guest
diskussing this topic is moot at least. I moderate on a forum and I'd have deleted the moderation diskussion thread as well. Mostly everything has been said, those who took part had a chance to read all the arguments and now it is gone.
Let's talk about filmprizes, neckstraps, bags, cameras and pictures and everything rangefinderrelated.
Let's talk about filmprizes, neckstraps, bags, cameras and pictures and everything rangefinderrelated.
Sparrow
Veteran
No you’re not by yourself Paul; I’ll join you in a Big Mac.