Why did darkroom/wet printing die?
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Al Kaplan
Veteran
Damn! I guess you guys are going to appoint me the "designated smoker" of the group?
Some recent medical research in France (this is for real) shows that nicotine delays the onset of Alzheimers and, together with caffeine, seems to improve cognitive abilities and memory. My neurologist keeps telling me that I should move to a state with legal medical marijuana because it's a better anti-seizure medicine than the expensive drug that I'm taking, with fewer side effects, and it'd be cheaper to boot.
dap, I think that you should be the "designated Old Fashioned Guy". I'm going to smoke a cigarette in your honor!
http://thepriceofsilver.blogspot.com
Some recent medical research in France (this is for real) shows that nicotine delays the onset of Alzheimers and, together with caffeine, seems to improve cognitive abilities and memory. My neurologist keeps telling me that I should move to a state with legal medical marijuana because it's a better anti-seizure medicine than the expensive drug that I'm taking, with fewer side effects, and it'd be cheaper to boot.
dap, I think that you should be the "designated Old Fashioned Guy". I'm going to smoke a cigarette in your honor!
http://thepriceofsilver.blogspot.com
Last edited:
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
Get a pipe Al!....it will last while you turn out a few prints!😉
MartinP
Veteran
Re: the cock tail
I assumed it was a handful of feathers to be used as a dodging device , no ????
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
For me it was my health, The chemicals were making me sick. I had a good darkroom with proper ventilation, exhaust fans, etc. and I didn't stick my hands in the chemicals. Still, I'd come out after a couple hours of work with sore throats, skin rashes, and would feel strange and tired. Wasn't like that when I began working in the darkroom at age 15, it got like that over time. I developed, as we say, lol, bad allergies. I love photography, and its my life, which is why the darkroom wasn't worth shortening my life over. Epson prints look just fine IF you know what you're doing.
mh2000
Well-known
Same here... last time in my darkroom came out coughing up blood for 2 days. I can do film if I'm really careful, that is all. Luckily this happened right when b&w inkjet options were becoming available. I seem to prefer HP to Epson now... but there are tradeoffs both ways.
I was probably just a "run of the mill" printer for years, but still able to turn out prints that I was proud of... my inkjet prints are definitely better than all but my best traditional prints.
Anothing good thing about scanning and printing is that there is significant overlap with skills needed to process and print digital images... even though I almost never shoot digital, it is nice to be able to use film and digital and being good at both...
I was probably just a "run of the mill" printer for years, but still able to turn out prints that I was proud of... my inkjet prints are definitely better than all but my best traditional prints.
Anothing good thing about scanning and printing is that there is significant overlap with skills needed to process and print digital images... even though I almost never shoot digital, it is nice to be able to use film and digital and being good at both...
T
Todd.Hanz
Guest
I've printed with ink jets for years, I thought the results were as good as traditional wet work. I recently bought an enlarger and realized how wrong I was, better late than never.
Lith printing is where I'm at currently, very rewarding but time consuming.
Todd
Lith printing is where I'm at currently, very rewarding but time consuming.
Todd
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Well the thought of making ink jet prints would have me sick.
I guess some folks are able to become allergic to the chems, I do wear gloves now when I'm running film and when I'm doing my hypo clear (which I do by shuffling the the prints by hand). But in the dilution the stuff I use gets used at it really does seem pretty harmless. Guess I'll find out upon my autopsy.
I guess some folks are able to become allergic to the chems, I do wear gloves now when I'm running film and when I'm doing my hypo clear (which I do by shuffling the the prints by hand). But in the dilution the stuff I use gets used at it really does seem pretty harmless. Guess I'll find out upon my autopsy.
shadowfox
Darkroom printing lives
Goodness, what in the world happened in there?
Before we scare the juice out of people who are thinking to give darkroom at try, let's talk about Silvergrain (silvergrain dot com, naturally) chemicals which I am using right now. I'm not peddling for them, there are other brands that are advertised as less toxic and more non-allergenic, Silvergrain is what I use now.
The developer doesn't smell, neither does the odorless stop-bath from Arista (Freestyle's brand), and the fixer: an hour of bathroom exhaust fan left not trace of odor. I should know, I have a very sensitive and allergic nose.
I went into extensive research before I took the plunge for the sake of my toddler daughter (she's even younger when I started printing). All it takes is a good dose of reading, and common sense like for example: always wear nitrile gloves. Always.
I am getting started in toning, but that can be done in an outside patio (which I plan to do).
Chriscrawfordphoto
Real Men Shoot Film.
There are no such things as non-toxic photo chemicals. All fixers contain a Thiosulfate compound, which is toxic. They can make chemicals odorless, but they still give off fumes that you shouldn't be breathing. Same with developers.
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
you'll make someone a wonderful partner!😀
sepiareverb
genius and moron
Perhaps true, but I've found in my reading of MSDS sheets that in the dilutions used any risk for most folks is minimal to none. Sensitized people are another story. I have an old friend who had to stop after years of hand developing sheet film with HC-110, so sensitivity can develop, but back then such things weren't ever considered that I heard. A good exhaust fan and fresh air intake goes a long way in making the darkroom safe for the vast majority of us.
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
Fortunately I have never suffered any known ill-effects, and have foolishly had some chemicals on bare hands from time to time, but the stuff that worried me, and really made me take extra care was the selenium toner, that I used quite a lot!😱
Dave.
Dave.
peripatetic
Well-known
Actually they are very cheap to us. Companies like Photobox and Kodak online use them, good digital files output for their ICC profiles and uploaded produce fantastic prints and their prices are very low compared to running your own high-end inkjet printers or darkroom.
A lot of people print using crummy $100 inkjet printers and compare them to darkroom prints. Well duh! No contest. But the high end inks and printers and papers are very good even in BW, and in colour have long since passed most darkroom techniques.
The big deal for professionals though is that if you want to make 10 prints from a negative with dodging and burning, etc. it's very hard work. Each print takes the same amount of time and chances are they will not all be equally good. If making a single print takes 20 minutes then 10 prints take 200 minutes, and if you are lucky enough to be selling 100 prints then that's 2000 minutes. With a good digital system each print is identical and once you've done the PS work you're all done as far as the effort is concerned.
Al Kaplan
Veteran
All very true but collectors will pay a premium for a gelatin silver hand made print using a conventional enlarger BECAUSE each and every one is unique. You could make a bunch of identical digital prints of the Mona Lisa too. They call them "posters". But to each his own. Talk to a gallery owner or museum curator and the first thing they'll ask you is "Is it gelatin silver?", and it'll say "Gelatin Silver Print" or "Ink Jet Print" on the price card.
That's just the way the world is! Accept it.
That's just the way the world is! Accept it.
Lilserenity
Well-known
I must admit the reason I work with a darkroom rather than an inkjet is because I'm not interested in creating prints digitally, I wanted to do something away from a computer and the darkroom and creating B&W prints suits for me, but it's not for everyone. I'm not creating massive amounts of duplicate work so I don't mind spending time getting a print right with split-grade, dodging and burning plus a bit of toning from time to time. It takes long perhaps than Photoshop but time is not an issue for a keen amateur like me.
The quality I get from my enlarger is exceptional and that is great, likewise another side effect is that when doing prints of 8x10" and larger, I find my analogue workflow cheaper and better quality; but for 6x4s/7x5s I get them done digitally by the minilab or an on-line service like Photobox as that's so cheap that way. I sometimes do hand printed black and white 6x4s but I'd never do colour, that makes no sense to me.
I guess because I like using film, for me I am happy to use an analogue workflow end to end.
Digital colour might be better in some cases, I don't know, what I do know is I have produced excellent black and white with my workflow and I have also had exceptional colour work done for me as RA4s optically or Cibachromes; whether they're the absolute pinnacle, no idea, all I know is they look fab in my albums and on my walls and my client's walls.
Vicky
The quality I get from my enlarger is exceptional and that is great, likewise another side effect is that when doing prints of 8x10" and larger, I find my analogue workflow cheaper and better quality; but for 6x4s/7x5s I get them done digitally by the minilab or an on-line service like Photobox as that's so cheap that way. I sometimes do hand printed black and white 6x4s but I'd never do colour, that makes no sense to me.
I guess because I like using film, for me I am happy to use an analogue workflow end to end.
Digital colour might be better in some cases, I don't know, what I do know is I have produced excellent black and white with my workflow and I have also had exceptional colour work done for me as RA4s optically or Cibachromes; whether they're the absolute pinnacle, no idea, all I know is they look fab in my albums and on my walls and my client's walls.
Vicky
Dave Wilkinson
Veteran
I agree!....but am a little puzzled - when you say "time is not an issue for a keen amatuer like me"....then end by saying how fab the pictures look - on your clients walls?
Dave.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
That was normal working procedure in every lab I ever worked in. I remember one darkroom, three of us printing, all three of us smoking, and one guy who would "burn in" with the "friction method" holding the print in one hand and rubbing it vigorously with his other palm. Toss it in the wash and take another drag off the cigarette. We did have towels, and got a fresh one every day.
Even in the fancy lab I worked at chemistry was not anything anybody was worried about. Stabilization prints were handled with bare hands, the machines were cleaned with bare hands. I doubt there was a mask or even goggles in the entire building. Different times.
MartinP
Veteran
Sounds familiar ! I'm almost as young as you and the only time anyone used gloves was for developing lith sheets in trays.
I suspect this thread is moving towards telling any future 'Googlers' that the reason darkroom work reduced in volume is because the practitioners all died early. But it's not really true - for example, look at Al, if you can see him through all the smoke 😉
Lilserenity
Well-known
I should have been clearer 🙂 I don't see myself as a pro but over the past 7-8 months I have had a little bit of an uptick in people asking me to do family portraits and of their children; but for the most part I am still very much amateur, it doesn't bring in much money what I do but maybe in time. What I do is probably a bit different to the CD with 150+ pics, it's more 5 or 6 photos on a CD plus high quality black and white hand prints. They all know it's done by hand so I'm not on a 48hr turnaround (7 days usually.)
But yes, if the clients steadily increase, maybe I will no longer technically be an amateur 🙂
We will see!
Vicky
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