why do we like quiet cameras?

[jaapv]

No beeps for me: M6TTL,VisoflexIII in silent mode and Noflexar 400 with Tex extender: 800 mm in blessed silence! My Canon 100-400 can be bought at ffordes....

 

[Kim Coxon]

I have to say, I am not convinced with the cloth is quieter than metal argument. On both my Canon VI-ls (one sold and the other for sale) the shutter is quieter than the Leicas I have had. This includes M2, M3, M4 and M6. Now the Canon P I had was much noisier. Maybe this had something to do with the fact that the P was a budget model of the VI series.

Maybe Leica didn't like a metal shutter because it would show wrinkles and that wouldn't be Leica like. Besides, most Leicas don't get used that much so there is less chance of burning a hole in the curtain. 😀 😀 😀 😀

Kim

From a different side, wouldn't the use of rubberized silk or whatever, be a deliberate design decision? I can't really believe that they'd decide to use such a cloth mechanism instead of metal if they didn't see an advantage. After all, that's why they can't go any higher than a certain shutter speed.

 

[jaapv]

I have to say, I am not convinced with the cloth is quieter than metal argument. On both my Canon VI-ls (one sold and the other for sale) the shutter is quieter than the Leicas I have had. This includes M2, M3, M4 and M6. Now the Canon P I had was much noisier. Maybe this had something to do with the fact that the P was a budget model of the VI series.

Maybe Leica didn't like a metal shutter because it would show wrinkles and that wouldn't be Leica like. Besides, most Leicas don't get used that much so there is less chance of burning a hole in the curtain. 😀 😀 😀 😀

Kim

Not true, Kim, thin titanium sheet burns a heck of a lot better than rubberized cloth, that just smoulders.If you think about it, it might ignite the magnesium body😱 😱 The whole camera might explode in your hands if you photograph a sunset!!😱 :bang: 😀

 

[Gabriel M.A.]

Frank:

Harley Davidson Motorcycles are designed to be loud - many riders vocalise that quiet pipes kill....

The harley people would think us crazy for saying that quiet = quality

Harley Davidson motorcycles have a unique sound. People think they are designed to be loud. I have seen many ego-compensators riding Harleys which have clearly been modified to be even louder.

To each their own. If somebody thinks that turning heads by waking up the neighbourhood or drowning a conversation hundreds of feet away is a "good" thing, well, that's their choice. Reminds me of those kids that put used milk cartons to rub against their back wheel, because "it sounds cool". Then again, it may be the same kind of person who is talking at the top of their lungs on their cellphone, or forgets to use his/her inside voice at a restaurant.

To each their own.

 

[jaapv]

Sound is an extremely important marketing aspect. Car manufacturers have special sound labs and spend many millions optimizing sound performance, down to the clikc of the switches. It does sell cars. It is deliberate that BMW, Mercedes and Jaguar for instance each have their own sound signature.

 

[rxmd]

Hi Jaap,

Not true, Kim, thin titanium sheet burns a heck of a lot better than rubberized cloth, that just smoulders.If you think about it, it might ignite the magnesium body

Powdered titanium catches fire at over 600 °C if I remember correctly. Since ignition temperatures are a function of material shape, a sheet of titanium is unlikely to be set on fire just by sunlight through a lens, and if you've got this kind of heat in your camera a cloth curtain definitely wouldn't "just smoulder". As for the magnesium body, since it is a very good heat conductor, a block is much more difficult to set on fire than the material in powdered form.

If you're worried that your titanium shutter curtains might catch fire, try focusing a lens on a sheet of aluminium foil and setting that on fire, the temperatures should be similar (+/- 30-40K)

Philipp

 

[rxmd]

From a different side, wouldn't the use of rubberized silk or whatever, be a deliberate design decision? I can't really believe that they'd decide to use such a cloth mechanism instead of metal if they didn't see an advantage.

Cloth has been used for focal plane shutters since the 19th century. It was simply the established material for the job.

Zeiss had to start using a vertically-travelling metal shutter curtain to work around Leitz patents on focal plane shutters in 35mm cameras.

Philipp

 

[jaapv]

See my smileys, Philipp?😉

 

[rxmd]

See my smileys, Philipp?😉

I guess over all the 😱s and :bang:s I overlooked the 😀.

Philipp 😉

 

[BrianShaw]

Sound is an extremely important marketing aspect. Car manufacturers have special sound labs and spend many millions optimizing sound performance, down to the clikc of the switches. It does sell cars. It is deliberate that BMW, Mercedes and Jaguar for instance each have their own sound signature.

Indeed... even the "cheap" makes and models of cars have engineered sounds. Generally they attempt to make them sound "richer" and "better constructed" as well as maintaining distinctive acoustic qualities. This helps blind drivers identify the type of car they are driving. Acoustic engineering is obviously "over-engineering" in a well-made car but in the cheaper brands it is a concerted attempt to imply adequate-engineering to potential customers. 😀

 

[Sparrow]

The Lockheed SR - 71 Blackbird is made from titanium,interestingly, when I was at school it melted at 1700°c

 

[BrianShaw]

So as not to make the birds fly off, not to make the animals run away, not to make the people turn round....

So it's true 😕 ... street photographers generally take pictures of peoples backs 🙂

 

[jaapv]

The Lockheed SR - 71 Blackbird is made from titanium,interestingly, when I was at school it melted at 1700°c

You melted down an AEROPLANE when at school???😱 😱 😱

 

[Sparrow]

You melted down an AEROPLANE when at school???😱 😱 😱

At every opportunity

 

[back alley]

good morning all!

this has been quite the discussion so far and civil too!
from what i have read i conclude that marketing is a big factor and the influence of others to convince us of a need that may not necessarily exist. it seems we have been trained to believe that quiet equals quality.
but the key factor may well be our own insecurity in that we are self conscious about taking people pictures and prefer a stealthy approach where attention is not directed at us.

perhaps i'll view this differently after my morning coffee or after more arguments have been made.

joe

 

[VinceC]

I always preferred quiet motorcycles.

On the cloth-versus-metal question, earlier this year I replaced a worn out cloth shutter on my Nikon SP with a new titanium shutter. No meaningful or perceptible difference in sound between it and either of my cloth-shutter S3s. So I don't think the material itself is critical, except how it affects the overall shutter design.

 

[FrankS]

Not true, Kim, thin titanium sheet burns a heck of a lot better than rubberized cloth, that just smoulders.If you think about it, it might ignite the magnesium body😱 😱 The whole camera might explode in your hands if you photograph a sunset!!😱 :bang: 😀

As well it should! 🙂

 

[Marc-A.]

My Kiev II is just as quiet/as loud as my Leica M2, and less loud than my Leica III. As long as they don't make the noise of my Pentax MX, it's fine.

 

[jaapv]

I'll have to remove some files from my gallery now, Frank....

 

[VinceC]

Having never used a Leica, my quietest camera is a Kiev 2 at the 25/50 range of shutter speeds. The 1/10th speed has a kind of stealthy whisper to it.