"Why do we say copies of German cameras?"

Hi,

Well, I try to keep the tone of these threads at a higher level and so don't mention Niccas, or people having two and giving people the chance of making jokes about pairs of Niccas...

Regards, David
 
Leica and Contax both have a "premium" image, so referring to FEDs, Zorkis and Kievs as copies is intended to raise their status in the marketplace. I can see no other "excuse" since the latter are valid cameras in their own right, in my view. Although it's a sweeping generalisation, most folk would agree that the originals were made to a higher standard with better-made components and better quality control. However, a well-maintained FSU is capable of perfectly acceptable results in its intended purpose.
 
I started years ago with Industar-22 and Jupiter-8 lenses and then Zorki 1 cameras as friends suggested and with the support here on RFf. Good copies of German equipment is what they are. I was careful where I bought them. All kinds of filters, caps, hoods, and a case. Oleg replaced the shutter curtains recently in my '54 user. He provides great service. I'm happy.
 
As part of the World War II "reparations", the Soviet army took most of the existing Zeiss factories and tooling back to the Soviet Union as the Kiev camera works.
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Only the Contax production line remained in Kiev, other machinery was given back after a while to restore the Dresden photografic industry.

This documentary is very hard to find now, it is worth if you can find it. Old workers of Pentacon telling about Dresden and its camera industry.

http://www.schmidt-film.com/Spurensuche_in_Ruinen_Praktika-Kameras_aus_Sachsen.html
 
I have read somewhere that FED started building their cameras under license from Leica, so in that sense, they were copies. Just as all the Japanese companies that got started using the Leica and Contax designs when the patents were abrogated after the war. The reason I bought a Zorki 1d was to see if I would like using a Barnack design.

My only wonder in all this is why haven't the sellers used the tag line "Improved Leica Design" in their descriptions?

PF
 
farlymac said:
I have read somewhere that FED started building their cameras under license from Leica, so in that sense, they were copies. Just as all the Japanese companies that got started using the Leica and Contax designs when the patents were abrogated after the war. The reason I bought a Zorki 1d was to see if I would like using a Barnack design.

My only wonder in all this is why haven't the sellers used the tag line "Improved Leica Design" in their descriptions?

PF
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I've read all kinds of things, but I don't necessarily believe them. I've never heard that one before, and I don't believe it either.

First, WHY would Leica license a cheap'n'nasty copy?

Second, the Soviet Union had very little time for decadent capitalist patents, and cheerfully ripped off everything.

Cheers,

R.
 
Hi,

There's an article in one of my old 1940's magazines (1942 from memory) about someone who bought a FED 1 (?second-hand) and returned it to Leitz for something and was told in no uncertain terms it was nothing to do with them. I guess they meant Leitz in Mortimer Street as it couldn't have been Wetzlar during the war..

As Roger says, best not to believe everything that you read, especially on the internet and forums. Anyone can post on them and they do...

Regards, David
 
May take me a while to find it, Roger and David, but it was in a short history of the FED works. I found it kind of hard to believe too. Still, the first FEDs were copies, but I don't see why today's sellers of the FED-2 and beyond won't tout the improvements to the original design.

I think this article got the story right:
http://www.fedka.com/Useful_info/Commune_by_Fricke/commune_A.htm

PF
 
farlymac said:
May take me a while to find it, Roger and David, but it was in a short history of the FED works. I found it kind of hard to believe too. Still, the first FEDs were copies, but I don't see why today's sellers of the FED-2 and beyond won't tout the improvements to the original design.

I think this article got the story right:
http://www.fedka.com/Useful_info/Commune_by_Fricke/commune_A.htm

PF
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And?

Why should "a short history of the FED works" have any inherent credibility, the more so if it is hard to find? Clue: if it were true, it would probably be a lot easier to find.

Cheers,

R.
 
Roger Hicks said:
Second, the Soviet Union had very little time for decadent capitalist patents, and cheerfully ripped off everything.

Cheers,

R.
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Third (although of only tenuous relevance)...I dimly remember that there was a trade embargo on goods from the USSR so nothing really mattered until it was lifted in the '60s.

Time to discuss Concordski.
 
I didn't mean to get your knickers in a wad, Roger. Please excuse my old stroke riddled brain for not being able to remember what every darn bookmark I have is pertinent to. Heck, maybe I dreamed it. :D

PF
 
Hi,

There's an article in one of my old 1940's magazines (1942 from memory) about someone who bought a FED 1 (?second-hand) and returned it to Leitz for something and was told in no uncertain terms it was nothing to do with them. I guess they meant Leitz in Mortimer Street as it couldn't have been Wetzlar during the war..

As Roger says, best not to believe everything that you read, especially on the internet and forums. Anyone can post on them and they do...

Regards, David
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Here's the link where you told about the Fed discovered in 1942. I really enjoyed reading it again: http://rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=87140&highlight=Fed's+194
 
farlymac said:
I didn't mean to get your knickers in a wad, Roger. Please excuse my old stroke riddled brain for not being able to remember what every darn bookmark I have is pertinent to. Heck, maybe I dreamed it. :D

PF
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No, I wasn't that uncomfortable. Or even "in a twist."

More than excused. My own brain, stroke fee so far thank God, is no more reliable.

Cheers,

R.
 
Just to add to the title of this thread.
I was studying about Lubitel and found it was copy of Voigtlander Brilliant.
Somewhere on Flickr they have posted picture of both side by side.

Guess, which one I'm after now? :)
 
Ko.Fe. said:
Just to add to the title of this thread.
I was studying about Lubitel and found it was copy of Voigtlander Brilliant.
Somewhere on Flickr they have posted picture of both side by side.

Guess, which one I'm after now? :)
Click to expand...

Hi,

They are both nice but you've more chance of a boxed one with the Lubitel. There's two versions of the Voigtlaender, btw, and I hope the extra letter "e" still counts as OK for the Umlaut...

Regards, David
 
I concur that the Kiev 2/3 were not copies of Contax but were initially war reparation taking over much of the Contax production line .

Initially , despite being made by hastily trained local people, Kiev 2 and 3 matched the quality of the German cameras but the Soviets demanded quantity over quality so build construction tailed with the introduction of the Kiev 4 .

However , the early Kiev 4 ,although compromised by the revised , cheapened body , was actually very well realised in creating the look and controls of the post war Contax with the meter construction of the original Contax III. A pre 1965 ? Kiev is still a fine camera if not butchered by back street repairers and Oleg does wonders with those 1970s/80s rough and ready Kievs with pretty rough finishing.

My hybrids of basket case KneB 3 and Contax III bodies with 1957 Kiev 4 meter and controls certainly do not lack precision engineering,engraving and finish.

My avatar is a box of parts Contax with Kiev shutter assembly which , like the hybrids works exquisitely.
 
Hi,

I've a "Contax with Kiev shutter assembly which , like the hybrids works exquisitely" not by choice but because the tapes broke and the Kiev bits fitted it. FWIW it cost a lot mre than the Kiev 2 and I don't know which I like the most as they've both the f/2 Sonnar/Jupiter on them...

Regards, David
 
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