Why don't Zeiss make enlarging lenses?

[tlitody]

I have wondered about this on several occasions. So why don't they do it? Or perhaps I should ask why didn't they do it as I don't suppose they will start now. And for all I know they did but I just haven't ever seen any of them.

 

[Alpacaman]

Apparently they did, but they were then discontinued. Perhaps too much competition from Nikon and Schneider?

 

[Edward C. Zimmermann]

I have wondered about this on several occasions. So why don't they do it? Or perhaps I should ask why didn't they do it as I don't suppose they will start now. And for all I know they did but I just haven't ever seen any of them.

Zeiss Oberkochen did and still do but for special industrial applications such as circuit integration and microfilms rather than generic printing. The most famous and highest regared of these are the Zeiss S-Biogon, S-Planar and S-Orthoplaner models. In their applications and in their time they were among the best optics available. Zeiss Jena (GDR) made a large number of Tessar and a few Gauss enlarging lenses for generic printing throughout their history but few made they way west as they could hardly compete with any of the Western brands.

 

[tlitody]

Thanks, I would have been surprised if they never made any at all.

 

[Edward C. Zimmermann]

Thanks, I would have been surprised if they never made any at all.

Why? Zeiss (Oberkochen) made lots of stuff and did not make optics for everything---- or everyone. Well into the 1950s and 1960s the printer market was dominated at the "higher end" by enlarger vendors such as Agfa, Leitz and increasingly Durst and the mass market was filled with cheaper enlargers and their triplets. Zeiss (West) had really nothing to offer. They could not make anything better and surely not at a better price point.. Neither their know-how nor their branding was demanded by anyone. The professional enlarger market was much less emotional and driven more by needs. Where the Zeiss name--- and why they were always quite protective of the channels into which their products went--- could not forge a sale they found their place in the smaller but more demanding specialist niche markets--- in effect proving their name.

 

[Roberto V.]

Zeiss Oberkochen did and still do but for special industrial applications such as circuit integration and microfilms rather than generic printing. The most famous and highest regared of these are the Zeiss S-Biogon, S-Planar and S-Orthoplaner models. In their applications and in their time they were among the best optics available. Zeiss Jena (GDR) made a large number of Tessar and a few Gauss enlarging lenses for generic printing throughout their history but few made they way west as they could hardly compete with any of the Western brands.

Do you know if the S-Biogon 40mm 5.6 would work for enlarging 35mm negs?

 

[rxmd]

Do you know if the S-Biogon 40mm 5.6 would work for enlarging 35mm negs?

It covers 35mm, but it doesn't have an aperture. I guess it would be a little awkward to use.

Its main advantage is resolution, and you'll see that only in extreme enlargements, something like a 30x40" print. Film grain will be more of a limiting factor there, unless you shoot microfilm.

EDIT: You can read this photo.net thread, where Kornelius Fleischer of Zeiss states how they use the S-Biogon at the Zeiss lab: extreme enlargements for performance demonstration purposes. For pictorial applications I guess it would be overkill.

 

[tlitody]

Why? Zeiss (Oberkochen) made lots of stuff and did not make optics for everything---- or everyone. Well into the 1950s and 1960s the printer market was dominated at the "higher end" by enlarger vendors such as Agfa, Leitz and increasingly Durst and the mass market was filled with cheaper enlargers and their triplets. Zeiss (West) had really nothing to offer. They could not make anything better and surely not at a better price point.. Neither their know-how nor their branding was demanded by anyone. The professional enlarger market was much less emotional and driven more by needs. Where the Zeiss name--- and why they were always quite protective of the channels into which their products went--- could not forge a sale they found their place in the smaller but more demanding specialist niche markets--- in effect proving their name.

Well I know zeiss make a lot of highly technical and specialized lenses for industry but I just thought that since they make so many lenses for general photography too, that it would have made sense for them to make a range of enlarger lenses to back that up even if they hived off manufacture to a another company.

 

[John Robertson]

After the collapse of the DDR, the factory in East Germany released some for sale labeled Dokter. a dealer in UK sold them, can't remember who, but I bought a 50mm one, must search for it. It was excellent. might try it for macro with the Bessa T + Visoflex111 set up.

 

[ZeissFan]

Occasionally, the S-Orthoplanar shows up for sale. I think they generally sell for more than a thousand dollars.

Before World War II, Zeiss Ikon produced enlargers for 35mm, medium format and 9x12.

The Magniphot 35mm enlarger has a Contax bayonet that accepts the 5cm Tessar lens ... or any Contax lens, I suppose. It also was offered with a dedicated Spezial-Anastigmat enlarging lens.

The medium format enlarger came with a Novar (with a serial number). I'm not sure which lens was attached to the Miraphot (9x12) enlarger.

I can't see any evidence that the enlargers were made after World War II. But then, many of the pre-WWII Zeiss Ikon products never returned after the war.

 

[Edward C. Zimmermann]

Occasionally, the S-Orthoplanar shows up for sale. I think they generally sell for more than a thousand dollars.

A function of aura, mythos and rarity rather than anything else. Few of the purchasers will ever use them for much more than "show and tell" or paperweights..

Before World War II, Zeiss Ikon produced enlargers for 35mm, medium format and 9x12.

Zeiss Ikon was not really "Zeiss"--- albeit part of the Zeiss foundation.

The Magniphot 35mm enlarger has a Contax bayonet that accepts the 5cm Tessar lens ... or any Contax lens, I suppose. It also was offered with a dedicated Spezial-Anastigmat enlarging lens.

It was quite common for people to use taking as enlarging objectives.

The medium format enlarger came with a Novar (with a serial number).

The Novar was (is) an unglued 3 lens taking objective.

, many of the pre-WWII Zeiss Ikon products never returned after the war.

Nor did Emanuel Goldberg.

 

[sevo]

After the collapse of the DDR, the factory in East Germany released some for sale labeled Dokter.

Docter actually was a West German manufacturer from the vicinity of Leitz/Leica who purchased the large format and process department from the remains of Zeiss Jena. AFAIR they only sold a few Zeiss Jena designed lenses in the transition period - their later lenses were their own designs, and absolutely high class by Western standards. As far as I know, the company declared insolvency and shut down its lens division after the too early death of its founder/owner - the new owners and creditors took the patents and shifted the focus of the successor company to more pedestrian products like car headlamp optics.

 

[Turtle]

Not the foggiest. Good question, though as Leica did, along with Schneider and Rodenstock.

I have found the 63mm Nikkor 2.8 stupefying for 35mm use and the 105 Rodenstock blows you away wide open for 6x7. Seeing as all can be had for $100 or less, I am not worried about the lack of Zeiss. Truth be told, I had not thought about it until you asked the question!

 

[ZeissFan]

A function of aura, mythos and rarity rather than anything else. Few of the purchasers will ever use them for much more than "show and tell" or paperweights..
Zeiss Ikon was not really "Zeiss"--- albeit part of the Zeiss foundation.
It was quite common for people to use taking as enlarging objectives.

The Novar was (is) an unglued 3 lens taking objective.

Nor did Emanuel Goldberg.

And so what?

 

[-doomed-]

I used a Jupiter 8 as an enlarging lens, so technically that is a zeiss lens as its a sonnar design.

 

[Roberto V.]

It covers 35mm, but it doesn't have an aperture. I guess it would be a little awkward to use.

Its main advantage is resolution, and you'll see that only in extreme enlargements, something like a 30x40" print. Film grain will be more of a limiting factor there, unless you shoot microfilm.

EDIT: You can read this photo.net thread, where Kornelius Fleischer of Zeiss states how they use the S-Biogon at the Zeiss lab: extreme enlargements for performance demonstration purposes. For pictorial applications I guess it would be overkill.

Thanks for the link, very interesting. So I guess if I ever start shooting a lot of Adox CMS 20, want some huge enlargements and have a lot of money to spend, I'd look at the S-Biogon

 

[tlitody]

Thanks for the link, very interesting. So I guess if I ever start shooting a lot of Adox CMS 20, want some huge enlargements and have a lot of money to spend, I'd look at the S-Biogon

That about sums it up. But then I've always wanted to see how far you could go enlarging 35mm film and get sharp prints from close up and little grain. It's an interesting technical exercise but I think if the camera were hand held it might not look too clever at 30X enlargement except from a distance.

I'm a little confused about whether it was made as an enlargement lens or taking lens. It said it was used for photographing news papers onto microfiche. But I guess since thats flat field to flat field then it works backwards from the same distance as taking distance. i.e. enough distance for 30X magnification.

 

[kuzano]

Zeiss glass too good for such mundane purposes???

Zeiss glass too good for such mundane purposes???

I wouldn't be surprised to find that the posts indicating the limited and very specific times which Zeiss did make enlarging lenses may be related to the quality of the lens glass being superior to the requirements of routine enlarger use.

I've always found this short paragraph from the CameraQuest site to indicate very high specifications for the development of their lenses:

Zeiss Trivia: A friend who visited Zeiss before the war explained that both Zeiss and Leica had three year photography training programs at their respective factories. Even more remarkable was the Zeiss glass works in Jena. It turns out the entire glass works was built on a barge in the middle of a lake to reduce vibration during glass pouring to reduce glass bubbles. Every day workers would hurry to work, BEFORE the draw bridge went up in the morning. Once up, the draw bridge did not come down again until the end of the work day.

 

[Noserider]

Zeiss also makes exceptional eyeglass lenses in glass, Non US only. I have 3 sets, one of them sunglasses, all with their Super ET coating which to me looks like the *T. Beyond comparison.

 

[Edward C. Zimmermann]

And so what?

That some Zeiss fans have deep pockets.

Thanks for the link, very interesting. So I guess if I ever start shooting a lot of Adox CMS 20, want some huge enlargements and have a lot of money to spend, I'd look at the S-Biogon

Does Zeiss use one of their objectives for the trade shows? Yes.. Would not make good business to use glass from another vendor! Zeiss showed beautiful massive enlargements done using Zeiss enlarging glass from microfilm a few years back. Gigabit showed at the previous show beautiful massive enlargements (of microfilm) done, if I recall correctly, using more mundane Agfa enlarging glass--- Ludwig knows his glass and the magic is what he got to the film. Most professionals (library, documentation, advertising, law etc.) who needed massive enlargements tended to either use taking glass (which can work extremely well) or the specific offerings from Schneider (M-Componon), Rodenstock (Rodagon-G), Nikon, Minolta or others.

Zeiss also makes exceptional eyeglass lenses in glass, Non US only. I have 3 sets, one of them sunglasses, all with their Super ET coating which to me looks like the *T. Beyond comparison.

Hoya's are in Germany currently considered the leader at the high end. Zeiss Vision, Rodenstock, Rupp & Hubrach and Essilor are all considered, however, very good... and these 5 more or less define and divide the market.