why is street photography so hated?

KM, i know exactly which photo you mentioned: riots aftermath. i see that as pure reportage - and fine reportage at that, deep with news elements ...
 
KM-25 said:
Oh for Pete's sake, that is not what I meant, goober, LOL!

Just setup a new gallery in Flickr and then slowly put images in it that are already in the big one. I do this all the time on my computer with sets called Rough Edit, Edit-2, Edit-3, Final Edit, etc...

Maybe opinions on photography are like vitamins, if you take one day, everything works a little better. But if you take the whole bottle at once, you'll curl up and die...:eek:
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Huh....I thought you said you don't use flickr :eek:

KM-25 said:
Ok, I'll bite but then I gotta bail for awhile, gotta keep shooting folks, lots of great projects to do...

L.A. Riots aftermath, owner of a pawn shop got killed, friends are guarding a safe loaded on a flatbed filled with jewelry and cash, so glad I no longer live there. Not sure how to get the jumbo size pics you all seem to get, I don't and won't use Flickr or any other public site....

Ciao...

http://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=101525&d=1424292045
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KM-25 said:
I posted a photo on the 1st page of the "Extraordinary" thread as a form of litmus test. It's an image that damn near got me shot, won 4 awards, ran in 30+ newspapers via AP, Newsweek and has what I feel to be some impact. As far as response, I got crickets my friend...and you know why?...I don't. Maybe because I have no friends on this Rangefinder Enthusiast website and likely I am on quite a number of blocked lists because I don't candy coat. Or, maybe because of what another member said, the thread got pounded by photos so the hang time on the image was nil. Either way, a photograph that gained critical acclaim by those who's opinions are still valid to this day got no comment whatsoever.
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I feel your pain. LoL I posted an image in another thread that I received a Mark of Excellence award (finals) and almost won a Leica MM and over 12K and not a singe comment on the image. I did read someone saying there was nothing much interesting in the thread or something like that. LoL.

You have at least one friend Dan...
 
Originally Posted by KM-25 Maybe because I have no friends on this Rangefinder Enthusiast website and likely I am on quite a number of blocked lists because I don't candy coat.


lol...is there a block button here on RFF? ahh! now it makes sense :D
 
I'm watching the TV show Survivor right now. (Sorry, shallow I know!) anyway, everyone that tries to step up and be a leader, gets shot down.

I appreciate the lead that airfrog has taken in this thread.

Ned, I love your photography.

Let's be kind.
 
I don't like visual clutter.

I like tight, clean compositions, exposure control for proper tones and hues, accurate focusing and control of DOF. I'm interested in graphic effect/impact/IQ.

HCB and Vivian Maier, at least in the work I have seen, made very artful images along these lines. Photojournalists (which I consider closely related at least in approach to street photographers) like Sebastião Salgado and James Nachtwey produce graphically striking images that also report and convey a message. Unfortunately, what I have seen of Winogrand's work leaves me cold.

Most "street photography" that I see on the internet is visually cluttered, with very loose composition and poor IQ. In a recent thread about metering, someone said that it didn't matter to be off by one or two stops(!). The chances of my liking images produced through such an approach are very, very low.

My photography isn't about working fast, so I admire those of you who do so. I'm amazed that some actually do street photography with a TLR! I just rarely see street images with the graphic qualities that I seek in a photograph.

- Murray
 
I think street photography (or maybe I should say "street photographs") receives so much harsh criticism because its so freeking difficult to get right. Flowers are not too hard, cats are usually pretty straight forward. But making a street photograph that works is tough. There are so many variables out in the public space, and those variables are changing quickly. Its this difficulty that attracts me to the 'sport'.

For me, a great street photograph makes you feel like you really understand something fundamental about the situation photographed. A street photograph is powerful when it can convey, say, the feeling of being on a crowded street, or the feeling of being lonely in the middle of a city, or of the chaotic rush of people headed who knows where. I still don't know how to do this, but I love the pursuit of it. I can't imagine stopping trying to understand my surroundings, my city, my culture deeply. The camera is the tool I choose for this adventure.
 
KM-25 said:
I posted a photo on the 1st page of the "Extraordinary" thread as a form of litmus test. It's an image that damn near got me shot, won 4 awards, ran in 30+ newspapers via AP, Newsweek and has what I feel to be some impact. As far as response, I got crickets my friend...and you know why?...I don't.
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I had to go back and check the photo. It's very small which does not make the content or the story justice.

The composition works, and the triangle of the gun men and the man with the dog creates an interesting scene. But it's small, and that makes it both easy to pass it and difficult to tell what is really going on. Are they perhaps protecting the site (which your description, of course, gives away) or just some neighborhood tough guys trying to act cool with the weapons? Either way it may be a scene you are either comfortable to be hanging out at and photographing, or a place you probably should get out of. The man in the middle does not look dangerous, and may not even be part of the posse. It is mostly him standing in the open, perhaps in the middle of the street, which gives an idea that he is looking out for something.

It's a good photo alright.
 
airfrogusmc said:
Usually people hate what they don't understand.
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It's a popular saying, but I'm not sure how true it is. I don't understand Quantum Mechanics, but I certainly don't hate it, I just accept I don't get it.

As for street photography, it's like other forms of art where merit is less obvious or more subtle.

Some people might feel strongly that certain street photography has great value and merit. Some people will feel the exact opposite, neither is right or wrong, it's different things to different people.

To dismiss those who think almost all street photography is rubbish is as naive to dismiss those who see real value in it.

I was at MONA in Tasmania just recently, I'll admit that I did not see any value in the works that I saw, but clearly others see great value in it. It's not for me to say that they are mistaken to find value in it, or for them to say I'm wrong not to.

I'd genuinely enjoy for someone to educate me so that I might see what they see in it, but it may well be that even once I understand what the artist was trying to achieve, I still could not find value.

I think it's easy to use the intellectual argument of 'you don't get it', and it's quite possible I don't, I accept that. But at the same time, it's an embarrassing excuse to say 'this is great art, if you don't understand it, you're wrong', like labeling something as 'art' forbids disagreement.
 
it's with every hype (religion, cultural revolution etc).
There are leaders, there are followers and...there are opposers. Call it haters if you wish.

RFF definitely doesnt hate street photography. Opening the page at any random moment, at least one of the 4 random shown shots are street shots.
So many of us do it, there cannot be many of us who hate it...

The fact you get no reaction has many different reasons as pointed out above by our rff friends. Hate is not one of them.
 
Hate I actually see more hate from "street photographers" towards other genres than I see towards street photography. Cat photography ugh in reality a good cat photograph is probably harder to do than a good street photograph, same applies to pretty much every genre or subject mentioned in this thread. Sure people photographing their pets isn't interesting too others especially photographers but to make an image of a cat that is interesting to many inlcuding photographers is very very hard.

One problem with street photography is that it has become stale (as have other genres) instead of evolution we have emulation of the greats from the past but very little that is new or revolutionary. HCB was great because he brought something new to the genre, same applies to Frank and other greats.

As for hate nobody hates street photography some people just don't find it interesting.
 
back alley said:
this thread really went silly buggers...it was meant to focus on street shooting and not me as such...not that i mind the attention...;)
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why are you saying this? I thought it was you who dropped at some points that you think street photography is hated because your uploaded shots get zero comments... you might have used other words tho
 
back alley said:
i don't think street is popular just because it looks easy.
when i was first starting out in photography 40 some years ago, i looked at all sorts of images and the ones that appealed the most were those by the likes of hcb and other 'street' shooters.
they were my inspiration...
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-see? noone else before this post of yours was talking about you :) and paulfish had the only comment few posts before this that actually mentioned rff gallery at all (and still not you or your shots specifically)

seriously, there's nothing wrong with asking folks what they think of you or your shots- that's part of the reason we are here - just go for it
 
back alley said:
i see as many comments about not liking the photographer as not liking the images...interesting.
so when i post my street shots and get no response can i assume that it's me more than my images that is not liked?
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...and then few posts down, you write this one... :)
 
KM-25 said:
LOL….ah Joe…lets take a look at the very first post and the title of the thread:

“Why is street photography so hated?”

It’s not as can be seen on here and in the recent discovery of Vivian Maier. Some love it, some don’t love it, I doubt many hate it.

“i know we all can't be masters at it but i see pics of cats and flowers and kids that get positive comments...calendar pics at best…”

That has nothing to do with street photography and everything to do with if the work is getting a second glance and causing the viewer to feel enough to express an opinion.

Or….in the case of what you have followed up with, why is Joe’s work not getting any attention?

So in looking at the statement above, you seem conflicted. You like the way you shoot, don't care about being popular and yet want someone...anyone to tell you how your photos impact people. You want attention and you are not getting it, hence the cryptic opener, yes?

I posted a photo on the 1st page of the "Extraordinary" thread as a form of litmus test. It's an image that damn near got me shot, won 4 awards, ran in 30+ newspapers via AP, Newsweek and has what I feel to be some impact. As far as response, I got crickets my friend...and you know why?...I don't. Maybe because I have no friends on this Rangefinder Enthusiast website and likely I am on quite a number of blocked lists because I don't candy coat. Or, maybe because of what another member said, the thread got pounded by photos so the hang time on the image was nil. Either way, a photograph that gained critical acclaim by those who's opinions are still valid to this day got no comment whatsoever.

If I never got any recognition for my work in any form, I might be down on it all a bit, but honestly I am ok with it not happening here, because my mentors, the people who's opinion I actually place value on are not on the inter-webs, they are real people who I engage with in person first and all other modes afterwards.

I looked at your work and at first glance, I agree that a tighter edit will make for a more to the point presentation. I also agree about the mix of color with black and white, when mixed together like that it is too much of a visual speed bump.

One thing I did not see or see mentioned is something I will suggest. The photos show folks at the market, both seller and buyer be when everything is setup, not before or after. I think that some depiction of setup and breakdown could make for some good photo ops. It looks like you have the trust of those at the market, so hopefully someone here can mentor you in private and you will find other ways to feel more fulfilled with your work.

But at the end of the day, you can't make the girl fall in love with you because you want her to, you can only make her fall because it is who you are she is falling in love with...photographs work the same way.
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Here. A rare (or not so rare?) occasion when i do agree with KM-25 :D
i told you!
PS KM-25 you got crickets for your extraordinary-LA riots shot because you don't ask and definitely don't need any critics, comments on that shot. It was also not the purpose of that thread- i think- to start commenting/critiquing (though it went that way a bit).
It's one of the few shots that i think do have their place in that "extraordinary" thread.
 
thegman said:
It's a popular saying, but I'm not sure how true it is. I don't understand Quantum Mechanics, but I certainly don't hate it, I just accept I don't get it.

As for street photography, it's like other forms of art where merit is less obvious or more subtle.

Some people might feel strongly that certain street photography has great value and merit. Some people will feel the exact opposite, neither is right or wrong, it's different things to different people.

To dismiss those who think almost all street photography is rubbish is as naive to dismiss those who see real value in it.

I was at MONA in Tasmania just recently, I'll admit that I did not see any value in the works that I saw, but clearly others see great value in it. It's not for me to say that they are mistaken to find value in it, or for them to say I'm wrong not to.

I'd genuinely enjoy for someone to educate me so that I might see what they see in it, but it may well be that even once I understand what the artist was trying to achieve, I still could not find value.

I think it's easy to use the intellectual argument of 'you don't get it', and it's quite possible I don't, I accept that. But at the same time, it's an embarrassing excuse to say 'this is great art, if you don't understand it, you're wrong', like labeling something as 'art' forbids disagreement.
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People tend to hate all kinds of things they don't understand. They hate other people because they don't understand them. They hate some types of literature because they don't understand it. They hate some types of music because they don't understand it and they hate some types of art because they don't understand. Not every one but there certainly are those that do and I think I have history on my side.

And I wasn't saying anyone was wrong for not understanding anything. Just there are those that hate things they don't understand.
 
KM-25 said:
...I posted a photo on the 1st page of the "Extraordinary" thread as a form of litmus test. It's an image that damn near got me shot, won 4 awards, ran in 30+ newspapers via AP, Newsweek and has what I feel to be some impact. As far as response, I got crickets my friend...and you know why?...I don't.
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Another possible reason may be the manner in which you link/post your images. I usually read RFF without being logged in ( a fail safe system on my part to help stop me being a reactionary tool, doesn't always work :) ) which means that some images don't show up and you have to log in to see them, the majority can be viewed without logging in and I imagine those are the ones linked from places such as Flickr or Photobucket. Laziness? Of course, but that is the curse of humanity.

The other reason is, as has been discussed here and we ALL know, just like you can't please everyone, or you'll always have people who loathe you, some people simply don't see how you see.

Glad I logged in and saw it no matter how late it was.
 
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