Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
By the time you will have this set, I'll walk by and take pictures of you from far, middle and close distance with focus tabbed lens 🙂 .
Why Isn't There More Snap/Zone Focus in Mirrorless?
- Thread starter agentlossing
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By the time you will have this set, I'll walk by and take pictures of you from far, middle and close distance with focus tabbed lens 🙂 .
shawn
Veteran
And have three boriing snapshots at far, middle and close distances.
Of course I'd have the same of you and be able to do it one handed.
Shawn
benlees
Well-known
Am I missing something? Snap focus is just set focus. Any camera can do this. The whole point is to not focus, correct? Set it and forget it. Know the depth of field and hyper focal distance for your lens/ format, and distance, and go from there. If you need to refocus then you were in the wrong spot.
Archlich
Well-known
The point is to set the focus distance instantly. Preferably with a single press of button, as with the Ricohs. No need to look or tweak, you know it's there the moment you pull the camera out.
I can only understand Fuji's lackluster implementation in the XF10 as being hampered by some patents, sadly.
shawn
Veteran
Just about any camera can do the preset focus so there really isn't anything particularly special with the Ricoh in Snap Focus mode besides giving you a manual focus mode with several preset distances.
Where the Ricoh is a little more interesting (and seems like where most don't even use it) is using the camera in regular AF mode and have full press snap turned on. When the camera is configured this way you have regular AF with half shutter press (and settable by point, area, face etc) and then it takes the shot with full shutter press. You also have the ability to instantly override AF by just doing a full shutter press without stopping. When you do that the camera jumps to whatever distance you have set for 'snap' and it takes the shot. It is kind of a neat mode but the GRIIIs AF is pretty fast anyway so not as interestng as it was on the earlier cameras where AF was slower. Other Pentax branded cameras have had something similar but they called it pan focus and it just jumped to hyperfocal, it wasn't customizable.
Shawn
willie_901
Veteran
This.
Or
Use some version of the virtual DOF scale to set zone focus as described by Greg Maslak above.
It is possible to set the AF parameters such that unintended focus areas are not an issue. Unlike much older FUJIFILM bodies and lenses, the newer systems are fast and controllable. With XF lenses it is possible to use the AF manually. This is not quite the same as using the lens focus ring and DOF scale with non-XF mechanical focus lenses or the on-screen DOF bar with XF lens.
Details about X-Pro2 focusing can be found here.
AF + MF to fine-tune focusing
In the Autofocus Setting menu, turn AF + MF on. You can then press the shutter button halfway to activate AF and use the manual focus ring to fine-tune your focus. This is useful when trying to focus on a complicated subject that is difficult to autofocus, or when you want to focus on a specific part of the frame.
Making best use of the AF Lock
Fix focus while pressing down or pushing the AF-L button on the back of the camera. Pre-focus and wait until the right moment to take a picture. Exposure settings may be adjusted even after locking the focus.
Instant AF in the MF mode
Press the AF-L button while shooting in the MF mode to autofocus on a subject within the focus frame. This eliminates the need to rotate the focus ring from near the shortest shooting distance position to infinity and achieve a quick transition back to MF. In the Autofocus Setting menu, you can specify to activate either AF-S or AF-C in Instant AF.
Use MF Assist
If you choose focus peaking, it is easy to visually determine if true the focus region succeeded in finding the intended focus object. For low contrast focus targets. the Rear Command Dial crops the true focus region to a predetermined enlargement.
Three XF lenses are designed for pre-set focusing.
With the XF14mmF2.8 R, XF23mmF1.4 R and XF16mmF1.4 lenses, pull the focus ring toward the camera body to instantaneously switch to the MF mode without having to adjust settings on the camera. Perfect for taking snapshots with at a pre-set focusing distance.
With the X-Pro2 I almost always use focus and recompose in OVF mode for street/documentary work. Of course, when I recompose the aperture must be narrow enough to accommodate the difference between the selected focus distance and the object of interest in the recomposed frame. This is similar to how I used film RF cameras. The difference is I use AF manually to select a small focus region at the center of the finder instead of turning a lens focus ring. Focus is estimated with Instant AF in MF mode or AF Lock. The focus region size can be adjusted to match the size used by your favorite optical RF focus patch. Using a focus region size optimized for lens focal length and, or the scene at hand can be worthwhile.
To be complete, there is a disadvantage to using AF manually with newer FUJIFILM cameras. One has to understand how the AF Menu settings work together. Then one has to practice how to force AF manual operation to operate as one prefers to estimate focus. This process can be simple as Greg Maslak and Shawn point out. Or it can be more complicated in some circumstances - e.g. when a narrow DOF is appropriate.
agentlossing
Well-known
Do you have the GR III? In practice over the practically two years I've owned it the AF, while plenty fast for static or slow moving subjects, doesn't cut it for those instantaneous decisive moment situations, but then, most AF doesn't. Once you start zone focusing a lot, AF becomes a little painful in certain situations.
I don't use full press snap, though, for the reasons you mentioned - jamming the shutter button down introduces a lot of shake, plus sometimes I don't do it forcefully enough and there's a delay while it tries to AF before figuring out that I want the snap feature. I use the Fn button to toggle between AF and snap, and usually have the touchscreen set to AF and shoot, as well. There's an update which allows the touchscreen to function as the snap trigger, meaning if you tap, the camera takes a shot at the preset distance, making the touchscreen a nice alternative to mashing the shutter button if you're in AF mode.
It's not that other cameras don't allow you to approximate the function. It's that the GR makes it so easy and quick to move between focus distances and trigger the shots.
shawn
Veteran
Yes, I have had it since it was first released. And a GRDIII before that.
I'm not saying zone focus isn't helpful in certain situations. I'm saying Ricoh's implementation isn't really that special (excluding full press snap) as many other cameras can do the same thing. Frankly, when shooting MF/zone I prefer it on my X100F with the focus scale in the VF. But part of that is likely having a VF but it is still quicker to adjust the focus with a dial than the combo button hold and dial on the GRIII.
And really when I shoot MF/zone it is because I am trying to get a 'decisive moment' when I have anticipated the shot and am waiting for everything to come together. It isn't because I'm just wandering about firing off snapshots. Doing that it is AF all the way for me.
As far as AF being able to cut it or not that is going to depend on the camera and the user and how much they learn to use it. It does vary between cameras. My old XP2 with the 100-400 could track a kicked soccer ball at 400mm while shooting 8fps and panning the camera. My Sony A7RII can't track a player with the Sigma 100-400.
Shawn
agentlossing
Well-known
Well I can't argue with someone's subjective assessment that Ricoh's snap focus "isn't that special." I'll just say I strongly disagree with you.
jsrockit
Moderator
It’s not special to him... but it’s certainly unique. No one else implements it the same way. It’s one of the biggest reasons the camera sells. And this is coming from someone who has owned every digital GR and even a film model or two... my dirty secret is that I didn’t use snap! I’m a huge fan of single point AF on the street and have made it work for me.
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Just some experience in this. Yes, if the picture is out of focus you can refocus, but the idea is to get it right the first time, at least for me.
I LOVED the way my Bessa L CV 25 SnapShot worked with me. If I remembered which stop I was on I could move it to the right spot for the shot as I raised my camera to my eye. If not I pushed it to infinity and then clicked closer to the point I wanted (unless I wanted closest). 99% of the time it was while on it's way to my eye.
The GR series of cameras worked in a manner that I adapted to instantly and was very happy with the results.
For me it's about the ability of making changes with your camera controls as you either bring the camera to your eye, or point it in the direction your subject it.
Very street-shooting-ish in nature.
B2
shawn
Veteran
The GRIII broke this somewhat though.
By default, to change the snap focus distance you have to press and hold the macro button while also turning the front dial. This is not an easy combination to hold single handed, esp. with the wide angle lens on the front. When you do this properly you can spin the dial one way or the other and it stops at either infinity or 1m. From there you can count the clicks to know what distance you are set at. (1m, 1.5m, 2m, 2.5m, 5m, Inf) However, if you press and hold the macro button and accidentally let up (due to the difficult grip) you just put the camera in macro mode and snap is disabled. Getting this setup while bringing the camera to shooting position isn't great because it is actually pretty easy to end up in macro mode.
The Ricoh does allow you to remap another button to adjust the snap focus position. But then the distance settings do not work the same way. If you assign another button to Snap focus (say Fn) you no longer have to press and hold while spinning the front dial. However, the distance setting no longer stops at 1m or Infinity. It just rotates through all possible settings so it isn't possible to set the distance by feel. You have to look at the menu. Again, not great for setting this while bringing the camera to your eye.
The earlier GRDIII I had handled changing snap focus better IMO.
Shawn
agentlossing
Well-known
The GR series cameras don't go up to your eye.
shawn
Veteran
ndnik
Established
It seems to me that in today's pixel peeping 100% magnification world the idea of good-enough sharpness is not acceptable to many people. Hence the tools that are being made do not offer one-button hyperfocal distance or similar zone-focussing functions.
-N.
-N.
agentlossing
Well-known
Shawn
Here's something that should be made clear, in order to avoid going around in circles. Ricoh provides those two different optical viewfinders an an optional accessory, and the GR is clearly designed to be held and operated out of one hand, using the LCD. You're using the camera in a way it wasn't truly designed for, by way of an optional add-on. This isn't a really relevant track for this conversation.
agentlossing
Well-known
shawn
Veteran
It makes zero difference if you use the LCD or the Ricoh viewfinder. The problems with the GRIII's key layout for snap focus is an issue with both. Bill was talking about setting the control while raising the camera up to take a picture. The GRIII doesn't do that as well as the earlier cameras for the reason I gave.
Ricoh very clearly designed it to be able to be used with the viewfinder. That is why they give an option of turning off the rear LCD. They did this very nicely IMO since it will show a setting change briefly if you adjust something with it off.
Shawn
Ricoh very clearly designed it to be able to be used with the viewfinder. That is why they give an option of turning off the rear LCD. They did this very nicely IMO since it will show a setting change briefly if you adjust something with it off.
Shawn
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I only had the early GRD variant and love them.
Ricoh, WHAT THE HECK DUDE? You are smarter than this.
I have to admit I went Fuji a few months ago.......
Do wish one of the low cost folks out of china would come out with a 18mm that focused like the CV SnapShot. At a reasonable price point I think they would a LOT of them (small, focusing knob and nice scalping on the focusing ring). f4 or 3.5 would be fine, keep is small and do everything you can to avoid flare.
B2 (;->
