j_fletcher
Member
As the only two film M's to buy new, both seem to polarise opinion (ie. the M7 is the future; or the MP is a classic). Why do people seem to dislike the M7 compared to the MP?
maelswarm
Established
Fully mechanical shutter in MP vs. battery-operated shutter in M7. Better build quality.
Tim Gray
Well-known
I have an M6, which is essentially what an MP is. It's a nice camera. I then bought an M7. It's a nicer camera (for me). Yes, it is powered by batteries. They last about 75 rolls. Last time I checked, 75 rolls of film takes up a lot more space in my pocket/bag than 3 full changes of batteries, which fits in a film canister. So, I can quite easily walk out of the house (if I so desired) with enough battery power to run 300 rolls of film.
The M7 does all that the MP does and more. I usually shoot it on manual. I can switch it to auto when I choose to. The two mechanical shutter speeds also work quite fine as well - 1/60th and 1/125th.
Think about a Porsche 911. Would you rather have a manual gear box or an manual gear box that magically turns into an auto in city traffic.
The M7 does all that the MP does and more. I usually shoot it on manual. I can switch it to auto when I choose to. The two mechanical shutter speeds also work quite fine as well - 1/60th and 1/125th.
Think about a Porsche 911. Would you rather have a manual gear box or an manual gear box that magically turns into an auto in city traffic.
j_fletcher
Member
Journeyman, on the M7 you get to choose! Are people afraid they may like the aperture priority too much?
Is no batteries really that important?
Is no batteries really that important?
CK Dexter Haven
Well-known
The MP is better looking.
The M7 does anything the MP can do, and more. I'm not afraid of batteries and i don't need anything built "better" than an M7 which is already built "better" than any other camera - even the ones pros use. I love it when the TLD (Typical Leica Dentist) dismisses gear that doesn't meet some sort of bombproof/post-apocalypse checklist. [Not directed at anyone in this thread - just at the standard forum responses.]
Personally, i think the MP gets more acclaim because the RF/Leica bunch reveres all things mechanical (oh, somehow excepting the M6?), and M7 fans are a bit bashful about proclaiming their love of Aperture Priority modes. Somehow, it's like a Leica-Lite. If you guess your exposures and only nail it 40% of the time, you're a 'better photographer' than someone who uses a meter and gets it right 90% of the time.
The M7 does anything the MP can do, and more. I'm not afraid of batteries and i don't need anything built "better" than an M7 which is already built "better" than any other camera - even the ones pros use. I love it when the TLD (Typical Leica Dentist) dismisses gear that doesn't meet some sort of bombproof/post-apocalypse checklist. [Not directed at anyone in this thread - just at the standard forum responses.]
Personally, i think the MP gets more acclaim because the RF/Leica bunch reveres all things mechanical (oh, somehow excepting the M6?), and M7 fans are a bit bashful about proclaiming their love of Aperture Priority modes. Somehow, it's like a Leica-Lite. If you guess your exposures and only nail it 40% of the time, you're a 'better photographer' than someone who uses a meter and gets it right 90% of the time.
j_fletcher
Member
Tim, good call!
Is the MP build quality much higher than the M7?
I ask because I am rather torn between the two.
Is the MP build quality much higher than the M7?
I ask because I am rather torn between the two.
thomasw_
Well-known
I've tried both of these Ms and the MP is where this cat sits and purrs. Counter-intuitively I found AE slowed me down. I shoot almost everything in B+W and therefore I found no need for AE. If I shot mostly slides, then I'd use a M7. Otherwise the MP is all a man needs. Because of the sexy looks of the MP, drool is a problem at times.
A big negative about the MP is the lame standard covering. The sharkskin on the MP just sucks. I fail to comprehend why Leica didn't just use the normal vulkanit.
I don't like the M7 covering either. But the MP's is worse. Fortunately it is easily replaced -- see PeterN's griptac charcoal.
A big negative about the MP is the lame standard covering. The sharkskin on the MP just sucks. I fail to comprehend why Leica didn't just use the normal vulkanit.
I don't like the M7 covering either. But the MP's is worse. Fortunately it is easily replaced -- see PeterN's griptac charcoal.
peter_n
Veteran
Here's the charcoal Griptac obligingly displayed.
Benjamin
Registered Snoozer
No no, that's not true at all. The MP has been built to a specification, just as the M7 has, the auto/manual part is not an after thought.
An engine type analogy may have proved to more effective..
"Would you prefer, Sir A) No engine, and pedals. Brass pedals Sir? Certainly. Take the MP.."
Tim Gray
Well-known
I've heard the MP is built better than the M7. I've not seen much evidence to support that. Yes the film rewind dial is different and maybe that could break, but I wouldn't call that better build quality. My lens front element is still the most fragile part of the camera. It's not like I shot put the thing or anything.
I agree, auto mode can slow me down sometimes too. That's why I often don't use it. But there are times when it is convenient and it's there. There is really no disadvantage - you turn it off if you want.
Also, maybe it's just me, but looks? They look almost identical. And it's a camera. I like looking at women more...
I agree, auto mode can slow me down sometimes too. That's why I often don't use it. But there are times when it is convenient and it's there. There is really no disadvantage - you turn it off if you want.
Also, maybe it's just me, but looks? They look almost identical. And it's a camera. I like looking at women more...
peter_n
Veteran
Neither have I, nor have I experienced it. I use both MP and M7 bodies and there is no discernible difference in build quality, at least to me.
Tim Gray
Well-known
I drive a manual too. I love it. I would not trade it for an auto. I would trade it for a manual, which is exactly like my manual, but in addition to the full manual experience, I could switch it into auto mode in traffic. As far as I know, A true auto+manual does not exist. Tiptronic is not a manual gear box in my eyes.
The M7 works absolutely fine in full manual mode.
The M7 works absolutely fine in full manual mode.
sepiareverb
genius and moron
I shoot both MP's and M7's (and 1 M5). The MP isn't "built better" than the M7. The MP & the M7 are M cameras, and every one I've ever used is different. Even the two MP's on my counter right now sound and feel different in use. I mentioned today that I hoped the MP getting worked on in Germany comes back feeling as good as the loaner. They are individuals.
To say the MP is just like an M6 is like saying a K1000 is just like a M6. (but the K1000 has a brass top-plate doesn't it?) They're all manual cameras that need batteries to work the meter. The M7 is battery dependent, like most every camera today. Not a big deal. M7 shutter speeds are stepless vs whole stops for the MP, so for slide film perhaps a bit more precise.
If you like the convenience of Aperture Priority go for the M7. If you think AE is the work of the devil go for either. There are handling differences more than anything else- (rewind device, iso setting, direction of shutter speed dial) and a slight size difference. Pick the Zeiss Ikon or a Bessa or the MP or the M7 if you must have a new camera. If not, there is a pretty enormous list to choose from.
To say the MP is just like an M6 is like saying a K1000 is just like a M6. (but the K1000 has a brass top-plate doesn't it?) They're all manual cameras that need batteries to work the meter. The M7 is battery dependent, like most every camera today. Not a big deal. M7 shutter speeds are stepless vs whole stops for the MP, so for slide film perhaps a bit more precise.
If you like the convenience of Aperture Priority go for the M7. If you think AE is the work of the devil go for either. There are handling differences more than anything else- (rewind device, iso setting, direction of shutter speed dial) and a slight size difference. Pick the Zeiss Ikon or a Bessa or the MP or the M7 if you must have a new camera. If not, there is a pretty enormous list to choose from.
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35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
The MP and the M7 are equally well constructed. I own em both. Each has a positive/negative. The MP has the retro film rewind which makes it slower to rewind film -- not impossible but slower. The M7 has batteries which can go kaput and rain on your parade.
On a daily basis I carry my M7. Just point focus AE and shoot. The MP goes on trips where I want to travel light and may not have accessibility to batteries, such as the rainforest (had to say that).
I find em to be two different style cameras. The hardcore Leicameister will take the MP. The guy who loves Leicas but wants to rip film w/ impunity will take the M7.
On a daily basis I carry my M7. Just point focus AE and shoot. The MP goes on trips where I want to travel light and may not have accessibility to batteries, such as the rainforest (had to say that).
I find em to be two different style cameras. The hardcore Leicameister will take the MP. The guy who loves Leicas but wants to rip film w/ impunity will take the M7.
novum
Well-known
I had an M6. How does the original Wetzlar M6 compare to the M7 in "feel"? One thing I hated was how easy it was to damage the rewind knob, which I managed to do, bending the too-thin metal. I drive a fixed-gear, and happily sold my Toyota back in February.
marcr1230
Well-known
I use the MP and it is rock solid and yet smooth as butter.
I assume the M7 is at the same level.
It comes down to preference and purpose, I will likely never be without a battery, and I rely on the MP's meter. With a non-AE meter, it's pretty easy to bracket and/or set the exposure +0.5 or -0.5. it may be the same with the M7
Part of the allure is irrational. I know that come what may, my equipment should perform. For me , about 99.99% of the time, the conditions will be fine, I will be around town or on vacation, nobody shooting at me, no volcano going off, no meteor hitting, no avalanche or shipwreck situation. But it it happens,I'm ready
Dante Stella has an interesting article on electronic vs manual
http://www.dantestella.com/technical/mechanical.html
I assume the M7 is at the same level.
It comes down to preference and purpose, I will likely never be without a battery, and I rely on the MP's meter. With a non-AE meter, it's pretty easy to bracket and/or set the exposure +0.5 or -0.5. it may be the same with the M7
Part of the allure is irrational. I know that come what may, my equipment should perform. For me , about 99.99% of the time, the conditions will be fine, I will be around town or on vacation, nobody shooting at me, no volcano going off, no meteor hitting, no avalanche or shipwreck situation. But it it happens,I'm ready
Dante Stella has an interesting article on electronic vs manual
http://www.dantestella.com/technical/mechanical.html
maddoc
... likes film again.
MP: - "sexy" black-paint finish and silver-chrome
- within certain tolerances exactly mechanically controlled shutter
- longest exposure time 1 second (more or less)
M7: - "ugly" black-chrome finish and silver-chrome, 2mm more height
- accurate electronically controlled shutter but battery-dependent
- longest exposure time 32 seconds
- TTL flash metering ?
I had the MP two years ago for a short time and after two trips to Leica the camera worked as it should. (Replacement of faulty electronics and shutter, wobbly rewind-knob). Due to the long repair times I could use it only for ~ 40 rolls in 6 month. That camera was bought used, two years old, looked mint and still had three years of extended warranty (luckily ...)
The M7 that I now have works without any problem, I have run ~ 60 rolls of film through it (since end of April this year) and still the first set of batteries. This camera is from one of the first batches, looks slightly worn, had the mechanical DX reader replaced and the MP finder upgrade installed. It works as it should and I can take photos with it in nearly every situation (including long-time exposures at night from the tripod).
- within certain tolerances exactly mechanically controlled shutter
- longest exposure time 1 second (more or less)
M7: - "ugly" black-chrome finish and silver-chrome, 2mm more height
- accurate electronically controlled shutter but battery-dependent
- longest exposure time 32 seconds
- TTL flash metering ?
I had the MP two years ago for a short time and after two trips to Leica the camera worked as it should. (Replacement of faulty electronics and shutter, wobbly rewind-knob). Due to the long repair times I could use it only for ~ 40 rolls in 6 month. That camera was bought used, two years old, looked mint and still had three years of extended warranty (luckily ...)
The M7 that I now have works without any problem, I have run ~ 60 rolls of film through it (since end of April this year) and still the first set of batteries. This camera is from one of the first batches, looks slightly worn, had the mechanical DX reader replaced and the MP finder upgrade installed. It works as it should and I can take photos with it in nearly every situation (including long-time exposures at night from the tripod).
Tim Gray
Well-known
Sorry if I'm a bit confrontational about this I completely accept that some will like the MP more. The two things that I really don't get though are this:
1 - The M7 really does work fine on manual. It's almost exactly like the M6 in this regard (minus the shutter speed dial direction). While I can shoot manual on my Canon 1V, it is certainly a different experience than on an M. No arguments. Like I said, I almost always shoot on manual. I carry an external meter a lot of times too.
2 - The battery issue. Two tiny batteries last about 75 rolls of film. Think about that for a minute. Even if you are going on a three month safari, the batteries really don't take up much space compared to the film you are going to pack. To be independent of batteries... with a device that is completely dependent on having a new roll of film every 36 exposures. I'm not saying I don't understand the battery issue. Again, my 1V takes 2CR5 batteries. Relatively large and they don't last all that long. Annoying. My GR1 eats a battery every 5-10 rolls. Annoying. I hated digital camera batteries, where I felt the compulsion to charge up every night, requiring me to drag around a charger all the time. Traveling light with an MP? Because of two tiny little batteries? My lens cap is more bulky and annoying than them...
Again, I acknowledge that some people won't like the battery part of the M7. However, I've gone through more batteries on my M6 from not setting it to B than I have on my M7 from shooting pictures. I change the oil on my car more often.
I completely accept that some will like the MP more. The two things that I really don't get though are this:1 - The M7 really does work fine on manual. It's almost exactly like the M6 in this regard (minus the shutter speed dial direction). While I can shoot manual on my Canon 1V, it is certainly a different experience than on an M. No arguments. Like I said, I almost always shoot on manual. I carry an external meter a lot of times too.
2 - The battery issue. Two tiny batteries last about 75 rolls of film. Think about that for a minute. Even if you are going on a three month safari, the batteries really don't take up much space compared to the film you are going to pack. To be independent of batteries... with a device that is completely dependent on having a new roll of film every 36 exposures. I'm not saying I don't understand the battery issue. Again, my 1V takes 2CR5 batteries. Relatively large and they don't last all that long. Annoying. My GR1 eats a battery every 5-10 rolls. Annoying. I hated digital camera batteries, where I felt the compulsion to charge up every night, requiring me to drag around a charger all the time. Traveling light with an MP? Because of two tiny little batteries? My lens cap is more bulky and annoying than them...
Again, I acknowledge that some people won't like the battery part of the M7. However, I've gone through more batteries on my M6 from not setting it to B than I have on my M7 from shooting pictures. I change the oil on my car more often.
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
Not what I meant. What I meant by "traveling light" was only taking one camera with me.
Tim Gray
Well-known
Oh ok. Haha.
One other nice advantage of M7s. They tend to be cheaper than MPs and the finish holds up nicer. But I personally like the black chrome more than the paint.