Tim Gray
Well-known
It IS a personal thing.
My point is that the M7 and the MP (or any other film M for that matter) are much more similar than they are different. To read some of these posts makes it sound like the M7 is closer to a modern DSLR. You could use the M7 for 50 years and if you never turn it to auto, it would be almost exactly the same in use as an MP. Except that you'd probably have to send it in less frequently to adjust the shutter speeds.
I also find that my M6 is slower out of the bag because I have to turn it from B to whatever shutter speed I want, otherwise the batteries drain. The M7 on the other hand is switched on as soon as soon as I've grabbed it and is ready to shoot by the time it's at my eye. I was originally quite worried by the 2 second turn on delay, but it is a total none issue. I have to make a point to see the film iso in the viewfinder, which is what is displayed during that delay. The M7 is on auto only at first, so I can focus and shoot instantly. 99.9% of the time though, I have time to examine the light and set the shutter speed appropriately. Or course, on a day out shooting, the M7 is never switched off.
And for those of you who say that you don't have to turn the M6/MP to B, you can leave it on a shutter speed (and risk running down the battery) or leave the shutter uncocked, you can do the exact same thing on an M7 and never deal with the 2 second delay.
Yes batteries are one more thing to carry. Just like film. I keep my film in one place so when I go out I know where to grab it. And right next to it is an empty film canister with an orange top that has batteries in it. Never left at home, never a hassle. If you don't like that, buy a couple sets and scatter them in your different camera bags, jackets, cars, etc.
And Benjamin, the true auto+manual thing was referencing car transmissions. I know they exist in the camera world - I would consider the M7 to be one (drives like a manual AND an auto). It's wonderful to have that option.
They are both great cameras and are very similar. If you truly have no need for AE ever, then by all means get an MP. If you have 15 cameras and your AE needs are filled elsewhere, get an MP. If the MP just meshes with you better, get an MP. If you are going to be stuck on a desert island with 1000 rolls of film and no batteries, get an MP. On the other hand, if you want just one M camera, or want to augment your older M6/4/3/2 with a second one, the M7 is a great camera. It's functionally the same 99% of the time as the older cameras, and when you decide to, there's an AE mode that you can take advantage. Only if you decide to.
My point is that the M7 and the MP (or any other film M for that matter) are much more similar than they are different. To read some of these posts makes it sound like the M7 is closer to a modern DSLR. You could use the M7 for 50 years and if you never turn it to auto, it would be almost exactly the same in use as an MP. Except that you'd probably have to send it in less frequently to adjust the shutter speeds.
I also find that my M6 is slower out of the bag because I have to turn it from B to whatever shutter speed I want, otherwise the batteries drain. The M7 on the other hand is switched on as soon as soon as I've grabbed it and is ready to shoot by the time it's at my eye. I was originally quite worried by the 2 second turn on delay, but it is a total none issue. I have to make a point to see the film iso in the viewfinder, which is what is displayed during that delay. The M7 is on auto only at first, so I can focus and shoot instantly. 99.9% of the time though, I have time to examine the light and set the shutter speed appropriately. Or course, on a day out shooting, the M7 is never switched off.
And for those of you who say that you don't have to turn the M6/MP to B, you can leave it on a shutter speed (and risk running down the battery) or leave the shutter uncocked, you can do the exact same thing on an M7 and never deal with the 2 second delay.
Yes batteries are one more thing to carry. Just like film. I keep my film in one place so when I go out I know where to grab it. And right next to it is an empty film canister with an orange top that has batteries in it. Never left at home, never a hassle. If you don't like that, buy a couple sets and scatter them in your different camera bags, jackets, cars, etc.
And Benjamin, the true auto+manual thing was referencing car transmissions. I know they exist in the camera world - I would consider the M7 to be one (drives like a manual AND an auto). It's wonderful to have that option.
They are both great cameras and are very similar. If you truly have no need for AE ever, then by all means get an MP. If you have 15 cameras and your AE needs are filled elsewhere, get an MP. If the MP just meshes with you better, get an MP. If you are going to be stuck on a desert island with 1000 rolls of film and no batteries, get an MP. On the other hand, if you want just one M camera, or want to augment your older M6/4/3/2 with a second one, the M7 is a great camera. It's functionally the same 99% of the time as the older cameras, and when you decide to, there's an AE mode that you can take advantage. Only if you decide to.
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Tim Gray
Well-known
Oh and one more thing, I find AE mostly useful not out on the street, but indoors. One side of a room might require one exposure, another needing something different. If you are shooting in multiple rooms, you can quite quickly come up with many different necessary exposures. In full manual mode, on any camera, for ME to shoot semi effectively, I have to rely on an in camera meter and shuffle my apertures/shutters around constantly. Since I'm already slave to the in camera meter in this scenario (but still evaluating what it's saying and making the appropriate adjustments), I find shooting on AE to be MUCH faster.
For outdoor shooting, an external meter is hard to beat and is much faster I find. Make your reading, set your camera, and forget about it.
For outdoor shooting, an external meter is hard to beat and is much faster I find. Make your reading, set your camera, and forget about it.
KM-25
Well-known
If someone gave me an M7, I would try it, but I have no desire to go out and buy one.
Out of 13 camera bodies that I own, 5 need batteries to operate and three of those are digital.
I have missed shots due to low or no power on more occasions than I would care to recount. But for the most part, it is not an issue.
But this time last year, a battery free Leica M truly saved my butt in a critical situation. I was on the first day of a 5 day climb on a technical route of Mt. Rainier. Just like the one poster noted, I had forgot to move my spare meter batteries from one of my camera bags to my pack. By the end of the first day, the meter batteries in my M6TTL were dead. If I had been using an M7 and had forgot to move the batteries to my pack, I would have been screwed.
When you are packing for a climb, you put safety gear and food before camera gear in your mind, so it is really easy to forget the little things like batteries or a cable release. I have been stuffed by cameras that need batteries enough times that I don't use them unless I have to. It is just the way I work, it works for me. I like to do long exposures in using the bulb setting. Cameras that need batteries to operate are not very good for this. It's a bummer that my XPan needs batteries to operate in terms of the bulb setting, that is one camera that would make incredible star trail images...if only.
Having a no batteries required approach has really helped in the long run so as attractive as AE in an M body is to me, I simply won't even go there, and I shoot 100% slide film in all 4 of my M bodies by the way, find nothing lacking in not having AE. I am fast enough and experienced enough in reading light by my eye that I am using all my cameras nearly all the time in manual anyway.
Out of 13 camera bodies that I own, 5 need batteries to operate and three of those are digital.
I have missed shots due to low or no power on more occasions than I would care to recount. But for the most part, it is not an issue.
But this time last year, a battery free Leica M truly saved my butt in a critical situation. I was on the first day of a 5 day climb on a technical route of Mt. Rainier. Just like the one poster noted, I had forgot to move my spare meter batteries from one of my camera bags to my pack. By the end of the first day, the meter batteries in my M6TTL were dead. If I had been using an M7 and had forgot to move the batteries to my pack, I would have been screwed.
When you are packing for a climb, you put safety gear and food before camera gear in your mind, so it is really easy to forget the little things like batteries or a cable release. I have been stuffed by cameras that need batteries enough times that I don't use them unless I have to. It is just the way I work, it works for me. I like to do long exposures in using the bulb setting. Cameras that need batteries to operate are not very good for this. It's a bummer that my XPan needs batteries to operate in terms of the bulb setting, that is one camera that would make incredible star trail images...if only.
Having a no batteries required approach has really helped in the long run so as attractive as AE in an M body is to me, I simply won't even go there, and I shoot 100% slide film in all 4 of my M bodies by the way, find nothing lacking in not having AE. I am fast enough and experienced enough in reading light by my eye that I am using all my cameras nearly all the time in manual anyway.
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Tim Gray
Well-known
Sounds like the right move for you KM. Why did your M6TTL run out of batteries?
Some battery powered cameras are really bad with bulb settings. Surprisingly my Canon 1V is great with it. It requires no power to keep the shutter open. The M7 is the same, which is nice, though I believe it does require a working battery to operate in shutter mode.
Some battery powered cameras are really bad with bulb settings. Surprisingly my Canon 1V is great with it. It requires no power to keep the shutter open. The M7 is the same, which is nice, though I believe it does require a working battery to operate in shutter mode.
Erik van Straten
Veteran
Erik van Straten
Veteran
Erik van Straten
Veteran
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
Nescio
Well-known
Syntax error in his first 3000 words...
Erik van Straten
Veteran
Beemermark
Veteran
You take a meter reading and slightly depress the shutter button and the reading stays locked. Change in light, move your finger a hair and then press again.
IMHO my M4 with the MR-4 light meter is faster than the M6 and MP. My M& is faster and more accurate than both.
Beemermark
Veteran
M7 time delay
M7 time delay
Just leave the meter on. I have two M7's and can't ever remember to turn them off and it doesn't really seem to affect battery life. The only time I turn them off is to turn them back on to see what speed film is in the camera (which also tells me if it's color or B&W).
M7 time delay
Just leave the meter on. I have two M7's and can't ever remember to turn them off and it doesn't really seem to affect battery life. The only time I turn them off is to turn them back on to see what speed film is in the camera (which also tells me if it's color or B&W).
snausages
Well-known
One day last winter in New England, the batteries in my M6 stopped operating in the cold. It was terrific to be able to keep shooting at all speeds.
rodneyAB
Established
Hey Rodney! Nenad Bojic's got a red Leica with his name on it? Kewl!
Heh - Oh, wait, that old coot.Too bad the chick got in the way.
But you can clearly see the MP with a 50 'Lux in the lower right side.
Keeping my priorities straight,
Hey Chris..I was mistaken on a few specs, Ralph wanted only 35,50,90 framelines, certainly an improvement over the standard MP, it is Burgundy leather, quite nice compared to the standard MP, but he spec'd the 85 viewfinder and the M7 style rewinder....uhgg...but best was his engraved signature, and only 50 bodies, not 500.
Thats a good idea getting a limited edition Ned Bojic MP into the works, I'm sure we could get enough RFF members interested to make a special edition run worth it...
Roger Hicks
Veteran
You are clearly not anal-retentive enough, and besides, you actually USE your cameras as a part of other activities, instead of checking bokeh and back focus with coffee-mugs and fence-posts. I'm surprised you aren't on more people's ignore lists...
Cheers,
Roger
thomasw_
Well-known
Hahehe, yeah but IIRC Ned was hardcore into the f-ugly red dots on the post-M5 Ms (except the MP of course). He even started a thread about it once. Many have a strong aesthetic dislike of the red dot and many have a strong like of the red dot on their cameras. Generally guys who are into MPs or the classic M2s, M3s or M4s, are NOT into the red dot at all. I think the Ned inspired MP would have to have at least a few red dots in order to pay homage to Ned and his red dot love. Unfortunately I think it wouldn't sell for that reason
35mmdelux
Veni, vidi, vici
I black markered the red dot on my M7.
matt335
Well-known
beautiful !
shayallen
Established
I have an M7 and since I am new to film and manual cameras I like the idea of being able to put it on auto and get a picture I just don't want to miss! When I get more confident with my M7 I plan on selling it or trading it for an MP and use it for a while and decided which I like better.
I don't usually learn about things from what other people tell me about them I have to go and try it for my self. I really like what 35mmdelux said when he told me " Why dont you just get both?" And I am sure thats what I will end up with...
I am really enjoying the M4-P I got from KEH and using it with an L-208 Twin Mate Meter. I really like the idea of using a separate meter. Such fun!
I don't usually learn about things from what other people tell me about them I have to go and try it for my self. I really like what 35mmdelux said when he told me " Why dont you just get both?" And I am sure thats what I will end up with...
I am really enjoying the M4-P I got from KEH and using it with an L-208 Twin Mate Meter. I really like the idea of using a separate meter. Such fun!
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elshaneo
Panographer
Hung,
Well my friend, I have to admit that I've become lazy since I use the AE features of the Leica M7 for every shot, and so far, the exposures have been perfect. Somehow I guess that I'm the one who got the better deal ;-)
But I have to add that I find the Black Paint Leica MP a much more beautiful camera than the Black Chrome Leica M7 ;-p
Well my friend, I have to admit that I've become lazy since I use the AE features of the Leica M7 for every shot, and so far, the exposures have been perfect. Somehow I guess that I'm the one who got the better deal ;-)
But I have to add that I find the Black Paint Leica MP a much more beautiful camera than the Black Chrome Leica M7 ;-p
I had the M7, traded for the MP with an RFF member. Not sure who got the better deal
I enjoy my MP for its solidness and the fact that it is not so high-tech, but sometimes miss the AE. But then again, when I really need AE, there's always the M8 and/or my other SLR(s).