Why online piracy isn't theft

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

I wouldn't even know about your work if I hadn't seen those 640 pix shots online for free, so can't imagine how you can be offended by someone saying their first entrance to your work was through the free webs. I never heard of the Band of Horses for example. Which is now one of my favorite bands. But I wouldn't have bought those €60 euro tickets without the free access to their music the web gave me. Then I went there, saw them live, bought their cd's and t-shirts, which is in the end a lot more profitable than when they had closed all access to their online music. Just deliver to the webs what you're willing to give away. Sell the rest.

I'm not offended that you saw my work online. I put it there for you to see. What offends me if that you cannot seem to understand the difference between someone choosing to put his work online to be seen or heard and someone who chooses not to. That's the artist or musician's decision to make, not yours. You have no rights to anyone else's work that they do not give you by their own choice.

 

[jippiejee]

You have no rights to anyone else's work that they do not give you by their own choice.

But really nobody is stupid enough to *not* promote their work online. Why did the Band of Horses have a sold out venue in Rotterdam? Yes, you know the answer. In a country where you have no name, the webs will help you. Nobody here will know of your photography, and if you sell anything here, it'll be because you haven't been overly protective of it. The internet is in the end the greatest free marketing tool you could have ever wished for.

 

[haempe]

But really nobody is stupid enough to *not* promote their work online.
...
The internet is in the end the greatest free marketing tool you could have ever wished for.

You can not argue against the free decision to use the tool or not.
Stupid or not.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

But really nobody is stupid enough to *not* promote their work online. Why did the Band of Horses have a sold out venue in Rotterdam? Yes, you know the answer. In a country where you have no name, the webs will help you. Nobody here will know of your photography, and if you sell anything here, it'll be because you haven't been overly protective of it. The internet is in the end the greatest free marketing tool you could have ever wished for.

First of all, I don't know why some band sold out a show in Rotterdam. Never heard of them and don't care. Music does not interest me.

Second, the web is a great marketing tool. I use it myself. I let people look at my photos on my website and other places I post them (like RFF). I don't let them use the photos on their websites for free and I don't let them have free prints.

Music downloads may well lead to concert tickets being sold. Letting people use photos free leads to...people using photos free.

Thankfully, the law stands behind my right to fully control the use of my work. You can whine and cry and stamp your feet, but what you're doing is still wrong if the band whose music you're downloading doesn't put it up there themselves for you to download. People in the US have been sued for serious money for music piracy. All the hot air you can spew won't help you when the state takes every thing you own to pay off those you've stolen from who decide that they're done being stolen from.

 

[jippiejee]

Music downloads may well lead to concert tickets being sold.

Yes, a No Name Here band being sold out. Selling out all of their tickets, their available cd's. And t-shirts. Not bad.

 

[Bill Clark]

A little history, as I've experienced.

Let me set the stage:

The time 1966-1970 Undergraduate College

I was a DJ for our campus radio station.
_________

Way back then bands achieved the vast majority of their income from vinyl record sales. I paid from $3.87 on up per record back then. What's that in 2012 dollars? To get the message to young folks they would give record albums to radio studios in hope of getting them to play on the airwaves. There were, maybe still are, radio shows dedicated to playing music, top countdown list from Billboard, newest bands, other tracks on albums. Dick Clark in L.A. with "American Bandstand" helped many artists, show promoting music. It was a fun time. Bands made a good living off of record sales. 8 Track & cassette tapes were popular back then. Some copying but not like the internet age.

Concerts made the band some money, mostly it was the iceing on the cake. A few groups were able to really rake in the money when the draw could allow them to rent a sports facility. That was the exception. The thrill was the performance, the crowds, the atmosphere, the applause.

Vinyl records are no more. CD's about extinct. Bands can rely on iTunes but at 99 cents need to sell a lot or have a hit to make any decent money.

So now the bands need to do concerts with props, costumes, lighting that was hardly ever present in the olden days.

Photography is going through some interesting changes because of the digital & internet. The small pocket digital camera is being replaced by the Smartphone. Instant upload to your favorite site for showing off the photos.

Smartphones are changing how we communicate, very mobile, what we can accomplish with them. The iPad is another game changing device.

The internet is changing how we buy stuff. Best Buy started here in Minneapolis and are hedquartered here and they are working hard trying to adapt to the new way of buying electronic stuff.

The list goes on.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I hear photographers cry foul when images are copied but, yet, they seem to think it's ok to have music they haven't paid or received permission to use, on their web site that they think, "well, that's ok."

They do?

Cheers,

R.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Yes, a No Name Here band being sold out. Selling out all of their tickets, their available cd's. And t-shirts. Not bad.

And its irrelevant. If the band did not want people downloading their music, then you stole from them. I'd love to see you argue in court that stealing is ok, because the victim benefited. You'll be thrown in prison in a New York Minute. I feel sad for you. I can't imagine having no moral compass, nor the ability, intellectually, to understand why someone would find your philosophy offensive. Unfortunately for humanity, you are far from unique. I fear for the world that my son will inherit. The one we live in now is screwed up enough.

 

[Roger Hicks]

. . . Punishing individuals for unauthorized downloading of music goes against the sense of justice that most people who have grown up with the Internet seem to have. . . .

It does? Why? Has the internet poisoned their brains so that they cannot think clearly?

Cheers,

R.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

They do?

Cheers,

R.

He's right, Roger. Look at all the proud thieves in this thread, bragging about how they download music and don't give a damn what anyone thinks. I bet you if anyone took one of their photos, these selfsame hypocrites would be in court, lawyer in tow, in a snap of the fingers. Its a symptom of our world's prevailing moral code, which is basically this: "I'm valuable and important. You? f--k off, you have no right to a decent living or anything else. I've got mine, thats all that matters."

 

[jippiejee]

Some bands like Nine Inch Nails and Radiohead have actually released their music for free on the webs, since they understood the platform...

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Some bands like Nine Inch Nails and Radiohead have actually released their music for free on the webs, since they understood the platform...

Once again, and I'll say it S-L-O-W-L-Y so that even you can understand it.

They c-h-o-s-e to give their music away. That's their right to do if they wish. It is n-o-t your right to make that decision for them.

 

[jippiejee]

Yes, thank you for spelling it out s-l-o-w-l-y. I hope some other people, like bands and photographers, will start to get a grasp on it too. Your product is not that mp3 that colleagues will share on usb sticks, or torrents, or that jpeg that goes around, but it is that amazing concert that sells you all these cd's and t-shirts, and that real print instead of the jpeg that was shared as appetizer. The web shares, the real product sells.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Yes, thank you for spelling it out s-l-o-w-l-y. I hope some other people, like bands and photographers, will start to get a grasp on it too. Your product is not that mp3 that colleagues will share on usb sticks, or torrents, or that jpeg that goes around, but it is that amazing concert that sells you all these cd's and t-shirts, and that real print instead of the jpeg that was shared as appetizer. The web shares, the real product sells.

You haven't read a thing I've written about how photography sells. I'm sorry, you just aren't capable of learning. I can't help you. I'd be careful if I were you though. A lot of your kind have had the wind knocked out of them by very costly copyright lawsuits.

 

[dcsang]

FYI: Moral "right" or "wrong" is different or can be different from the legal "right" or "wrong" and I think folks can get confused by this since some may believe that morality still plays a part in legality.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Nomad Z]

Yes, thank you for spelling it out s-l-o-w-l-y. I hope some other people, like bands and photographers, will start to get a grasp on it too. Your product is not that mp3 that colleagues will share on usb sticks, or torrents, or that jpeg that goes around, but it is that amazing concert that sells you all these cd's and t-shirts, and that real print instead of the jpeg that was shared as appetizer. The web shares, the real product sells.

So, you don't know what a recording artist is? You are unable to comprehend the notion that, for some people, the stuff on the web is their product?

 

[jippiejee]

A lot of your kind have had the wind knocked out of them by very costly copyright lawsuits.

Yes, those bands are the ones who really know how to treat their fans. Stop thinking of your audience as 'the enemy'. Culture has always been about sharing. Let me sing this this song for you that I loved. Copyright laws have always been the counter momentum of how people actually interacted with art. Telling each other stories they heard, reciting poems they loved, singing and dancing to the songs they enjoy. Remember Prince taking down a youtube video of a child dancing to one of his songs? It's ignoring what culture is about. The internet has just made this easier, and bringing in the lawyers is just ignoring culture's core quality. Sharing. Let's share what we love. Link, copy, download. Then enjoy the real thing. The musician's real thing is the concert, the photographer's a print. The rest is free really.

 

[Chriscrawfordphoto]

Yes, those bands are the ones who really know how to treat their fans. Stop thinking of your audience as 'the enemy'. Culture has always been about sharing. Let me sing this this song for you that I loved. Copyright laws have always been the counter momentum of how people actually interacted with art. Telling each other stories they heard, reciting poems they loved, singing and dancing to the songs they enjoy. Remember Prince taking down a youtube video of a child dancing to one of his songs? It's ignoring what culture is about. The internet has just made this easier, and bringing in the lawyers is just ignoring culture's core quality. Sharing. Let's share what we love. Link, copy, download. Then enjoy the real thing. The musician's real thing is the concert, the photographer's a print. The rest is free really.

You can keep repeating it, but it just makes you look less intelligent with each post. How dare you tell me, a professional photographer, what my 'product' is?? You don't have a damned clue. Time to shut up.

 

[jippiejee]

You don't have a damned clue. Time to shut up.

Thank you for the intelligent reply. This settles it all.

 

[dbarnes]

I'm not a lawyer, so I'm not going to try to parse the statutes. But I thought I'd see what the US Copyright Office's FAQ said about commonplace torrent-based uploading and downloading of copyrighted material without permission. Here's what I found. There's plenty for an artist to fall back on without using the word "theft."

http://www.copyright.gov/help/faq/faq-fairuse.html#p2p

Is it legal to download works from peer-to-peer networks and if not, what is the penalty for doing so?
Uploading or downloading works protected by copyright without the authority of the copyright owner is an infringement of the copyright owner's exclusive rights of reproduction and/or distribution. Anyone found to have infringed a copyrighted work may be liable for statutory damages up to $30,000 for each work infringed and, if willful infringement is proven by the copyright owner, that amount may be increased up to $150,000 for each work infringed. In addition, an infringer of a work may also be liable for the attorney's fees incurred by the copyright owner to enforce his or her rights.

Whether or not a particular work is being made available under the authority of the copyright owner is a question of fact. But since any original work of authorship fixed in a tangible medium (including a computer file) is protected by federal copyright law upon creation, in the absence of clear information to the contrary, most works may be assumed to be protected by federal copyright law.

Since the files distributed over peer-to-peer networks are primarily copyrighted works, there is a risk of liability for downloading material from these networks. To avoid these risks, there are currently many "authorized" services on the Internet that allow consumers to purchase copyrighted works online, whether music, ebooks, or motion pictures. By purchasing works through authorized services, consumers can avoid the risks of infringement liability and can limit their exposure to other potential risks, e.g., viruses, unexpected material, or spyware.