Why there isn't an F/1 Sonnar?

Why there is no f/1 Sonnar:
Because it don't work in the usual "Sonnar way".
Nikon did an excellent job to enhance the Zeiss formula from f/1.5 to f/1.4, even if the result was no "general use" lens.
Zunow did another enhancement, resulting in a very complicate, expensive design to resolve the worst optical errors at f/1.1. The most complicated Sonnar based design ever:
zun_11.jpg

Nikon, Fuji, Konica and Canon made their superfast lenses as Gaussian types with a reason.
From the published results, the Zunow design is desperately overstreched, as most (or: more than most) other early superfast lenses (incl. the f/1 Noct): Max. speed without asking for costs...
 
Last edited:
The question is not "Can it be done" but rather "Will it produce good pictures"? So far I have still to see a f1.2 or f1 lens which produce good pictures... I mean, one can take great shots with any lens and some shot can only be produced with a superfast lens but in general if you can take the same picture with a f1.2 and a f2 lens the picture taken with the f2 is in my opinion much better. Even the out-of-focus...

GLF
 
I have one of these (dual Nikon S and LTM) and embarrassingly enough, I have not shot a roll yet. It was acquired during a fit of GAS.
Although it is now in the camera bag and ready to go.

axiom said:
There we go...
Not yet f1, but I think I am interested
Thanks.
but I don't quite understand why there is no M mount?
Click to expand...
 
Roger Hicks said:
Note that the Sonnar-type Master Primes are the longer focal lengths, 75mm and upwards; the equivalent of maybe 105mm and upwards on 35mm. At this point you have only to correct across a very narrow angle of view: much easier.


Tasho delek,

R.
Click to expand...


Price, weight and size were not limited in the question the thread started with 🙂

There's another reason why the Sonnars here are starting at 75 mm. The PL lenses have a flange film/sensor distance of 52mm. The Sonnar design isn't as pliable as the Gauss design to bridge that distance and still keep a short focal length. Yet they must have had reasons to include Sonnars in that range of lenses. Probably the image character.

Ernst Dinkla
 
It's a quite simple task for a lens designer to enhance the size of the elements for speed. It's a bit more difficult to correct optical errors occuring at this speeds. To correct them you need computer programs, and variables like radii, thickness and glass type (refraction index). The more variables you have, the better your chances to produce good results. It's a hard task even with 7, 8 or 9 elements, and no chance with 5. There are Ernostars out there with f/1.8 and 30° field of view (about 85mm in 135 film) capable of taking good pictures. This one is overstretched by 1 f-stop and 20 coverage°. The results at f/1.3 will be "artistic" at best.
 
Last edited:
giellaleafapmu said:
The question is not "Can it be done" but rather "Will it produce good pictures"? So far I have still to see a f1.2 or f1 lens which produce good pictures...
Click to expand...

I've got a bunch of pictures in my flickr stream taken with the Leica f/1.2 Noctilux; the lens is outstanding at all apertures and has a very nice signature wide open. Here are a few examples:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/blakley/512853733/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/blakley/313374369/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/blakley/413398875/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/blakley/385801920/
 
The F1.2 Noctilux is an Aspherical lens based on the Planar/Xenon formula.

The original Planar formula had the front and rear groups as Symmetric and was very limited in maximum aperture. The Xenon derivitive of the Planar introduced the Asymmetric design that made it famous as a high-speed optic.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
P. Lynn Miller said:
Ziess did make some very quick large format lenses, like Xenotar 150/2.8 and some pretty fast Tessar of various focal lengths as well.

Not sure what formula Kodak used for their Aero-Ektar's but there some real screamer's... 12" f2,5, 24" f6, not to mention the 7" f2.5 which is respectable chunk of glass, and radio-active as well.
Click to expand...


I have a 362mm 1.66 lens. Now this is a fast LF lens.
 
Among the fastest lenses for 35 mm cameras are the 50/0.95, 50/1, 50/1.2 Noctilux's and are all forms of the Xenon/Planar designs with enhanced performance by incorporating exotic glass, aspherics or both. Nikon's and CV 50/1.1 are Xenon variants. Konica RF 50 or 60 mm f/1.2 are also Xenon designs but with improved glass. Canon's 50/0.95 or 50/1.2 is also a Xenon/Planar design without exotic glass or aspherics. Zeiss made an anniversary edition 55 f/1.2 for their Contax SLR seen here: http://www.geocities.com/ilprode/_55f12.htm. Speeds faster than f/1.4 result in an exponential increase in nasty high order aberrations necessitating the expensive additions of aspherics and exotic glass for decent performance. The RF 50 Sonnar design is stretched to it's limit at about f/1.4 and Nikon RF's wisely redesigned it as a much improved Xenon derivative known as the Olypmic version in the early 60's. This lens design was repeated with the reissue of the S3 in 2000 and is competative with the very expensive 50/1.4 ASPH. Summilux M.
 
I have to say those pictures from the Zunow wide open looked really poor, if they give an indication of what a Sonnar would look like at f1 then it's no suprise that no-ones tried to make one yet.
 
axiom said:
Why don't you show us that monster here?
mind sharing some pics and details?
Click to expand...

I have shown photos of the camera and lens in a thread posted in the History Photography section at RFF. It is a WWII camera designed for 3D work by the inventor Douglas Winnek. It does not have the film back with it, so I have never even attempted to use it.
 

Attachments

  • big camera.jpg
    big camera.jpg
    43.3 KB · Views: 0
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

M
Servicing & Restoring a Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 1:2 f=5cm T LTM Collapsible
Replies
5
Views
380
dexdog
D
M
Servicing a Carl Zeiss Jena Sonnar 1:2 f=5cm T "v3b ZE CR arrs" for Contax
Replies
9
Views
894
mhw
M
Räuber
Overview of all Zeiss Sonnar 5cm f/1.5 aka 50mm f/1.5 versions
7 8 9
Replies
163
Views
23K
Miles.
Miles.
Räuber
Soviet aluminum wartime Sonnar 5cm f1,5?
Replies
8
Views
1K
boojum
boojum
Räuber
Sonnar 5cm fakes?
Replies
14
Views
2K
Räuber
Räuber
Back
Top Bottom