Why WOULDN'T You Buy Voigtlander Lenses?

[Richard Black]

I have seen efforts to post photos taken with two different brands of lenses and ask viewers to select which was taken with which brand, but I found that there are too many variables, including the viewer's monitor, to determine which is which. I have a wide variety of 50mm lenses, slr and r/f, and some 28mm w/a primes, and when comparing prints shot on the same film, processed simultaneous, and printed on the same fuji machine, I haven't been able to tell much if any difference up to 5X7. Minolta, Canon, Vivitar, Sigma, CV, Industar, Jupiter have differnt characteristics but the degree of sharpness in real world, read not test patterns, varies insignificantly up to the aforementions size. Larger I won't know, that gets into my m/f equipment. The character of the lens can make a difference, at least to me.

 

[aizan]

mostly been an issue of aperture. no 28/2.8, or until recently no 50/2. a remounted and tabbed 35/1.7 ultron would be great, though.

 

[Joe Mondello]

In the old days, I splurged on the lenses instead of the body if my budget was tight and faced with a Hobson's choice. I guess in the digital age, things are different.

Has anyone taken a few shots and posted on side by side comparisons of CV and Leica glass and put a poll to see what people will vote in a blind test? I mean, based on the same person who would process the pictures, but differently for the 2 lenses since in the real world, one can tweak to what suits a particular lens.

Things are only different because bodies have become so expensive -- at least dRF bodies.

As for the second part of your post, of course Sean Reid's RF lens reviews (www.reidreviews.com) do exactly this and are in part why I (for one) felt comfortable buying CV glass with an M8.

Can't believe this thread is still alive!

 

[etrigan63]

Only glass I need from CV is a reissue of their 90mm Lanthar as an M-mount. I am not a big fan of screw mount adaptors (I try to avoid kludgy solutions whenever possible) and although the Summarit 90 f/2.5 looks promising, it still costs more that all of my CV lenses put together.

 

[zhang xk]

How about some Zeiss digiprimes?

How about some Zeiss digiprimes?

Hi all,

Thanks for a very enjoyable dicussion. I feel that men are sometimes like boys who always want the best, and perhaps most expensive toys in the world. I admit that even at 50+years old, there is a boy in my heart, so I always want the the best toys if I can afford them.:bang:
I saw a pricelist of Zeiss digiprimes that has glass elements as expensive as gold, and as heavy as steel. Each prime lens cost many times of a top end photographic lens. If these lens were made to cover 135 frame, they should be even more expensive. Now each digiprime lens cost between $25,000-55,000!
Since Leica is an elite brand, don't you think it should make lenses in this price range, or even more, and with this type of meterials? And let CV and Zeiss make those low cost and decent quality(not the very best) lenses? I can't afford Zeiss primes, so I bought some Chinese cine primes to satisfy my curiosity.

I think some people may need a luxury brand in camera just like those Patek Phillipe, Rolex in watches, not always as a tool, but more often as a jewel for man. Mechanical cameras and watches are similar products. There should be a luxury brand for people to cherish and collect.

This is serious statement, no pun is implied.

Cheers,

Zhang

 

[LeicaTom]

Back in my hardcore "collecting" days, all I wanted was Leitz, nothing else mattered, you run like a horse with blinders on if you think you can work in Photography with just one brand

I love Leica and always will, I`m even getting my ole M6 back because I missed it soo much, my Canon F-1 is a workhorse and also a mainstay of my pallet and from the good advice of a friend I`m looking into a Voigtlander Nokton, while I`m so obsessed with available light photography

I think to limit yourself to just one brand is`nt good for your creative style......

I used to cringe at seeing some people have Canon or Nikon LTM lenses on their Leica`s until I took one out for myself and tried it and found that I like them even more than some Leitz lenses

Everything is up to personal opinion and taste when it comes to Photography, I still say try it first and then if you don`t like it, sell it and move on

Happy Shooting!

Tom

 

[ChipNovaMac]

I have the CV 15, 21, and 25 and find them very competent lenses. Would I prefer more Leica glass? Hell yes! Have the 35/2, 50/2, 90/2.8, and 135/4 in Leica glass. Would love to round out the Leica stuff with the 21, 24, and 75 - but not willing to pay the piper at this point.

Been very happy with the results from the CV lenses, but would faster lenses from them in the 21, 25, and 75 marks...

 

[rsl]

I think some people may need a luxury brand in camera just like those Patek Phillipe, Rolex in watches, not always as a tool, but more often as a jewel for man. Mechanical cameras and watches are similar products. There should be a luxury brand for people to cherish and collect.

It seems this is exactly what Leica hopes for, and if they're right, by raising their prices they can drive Leica into the upper reaches of upscale photographic jewelry for men (and women).

 

[etrigan63]

In answer to the OP's question: Why wouldn't I, especially when I can get shots like this with them!

ISO 160
1/6000 sec
f/4
CV Nokton 40mm f/1.4 (Milich modified and coded)

 

[cmogi10]

my 50mm nokton feels like it's going to fall apart...I'm glad I didn't sell it. I couldn't deal with handing that off to another forum member.

 

[Joe Mondello]

my 50mm nokton feels like it's going to fall apart...I'm glad I didn't sell it. I couldn't deal with handing that off to another forum member.

Why not send it back to CV for service?

 

[cme4brain]

my 50mm nokton feels like it's going to fall apart...I'm glad I didn't sell it. I couldn't deal with handing that off to another forum member.

I have never had problem one with any CV lens! They are the best bang for the buck that there is. Yes, I wisht that I had the money for Leica glass, but this is a hobby to me, and I will have to accumulate $3500 pieces of glass (with only incremental performance compared to CV or Zeiss for 10 times the price) slowly. Nope, there is no reason not to buy CV lenses, unless you are rich!

Here is a shot with my CV 15mm Heliar, ISO 160, f/8, 1/360th. The original sharpness is incredible.

 

[jdos2]

Why not send it back to CV for service?

If you know the address, I'd love to hear it! I'm having to send my Problem Child to a Leica repairman- I returned it to where I bought it and the nice gentleman said he'd send it back to Japan. He also said it'd be 6-8 weeks. At 10 I called, and he said they "replaced" it.

Soon, I got back a lens from the salesman that was remarkably similar in the poor focusing of the one I sent in... Not sayin' anything by that, just sayin'. (WINK!)

I wish there WAS factory service here somewhere. That's one reason I answered the thread to begin with, and why I have a personal understanding of the risks.

 

[otaku]

To me it just seems strange to buy a leica and put anything other than leica glass on it. Also I like having the best! haha. I dunno I'd probably buy voigthlander because of the prices provided I don't here to much negative reporting such as this!

 

[Steve Walton]

Going against the flow here, but I sold a CV 21mm because it was very prone to flare and I felt I could not trust it. I liked the compact size, though.

 

[johnalex141r]

Hey, it's a Kodak sensor...

Hey, it's a Kodak sensor...

To me it just seems strange to buy a leica and put anything other than leica glass on it.

Ummmm. Actually, I purchased a Kodak sensor, packaged by Leica. What does it matter what you put on the front, as long as it does what you want? Having a lens that says "leica" on it is not automatically going to make you into a good photographer.

Do I have Leica lenses? no. Would I like one? Yes. Will I purchase one? Right now, I think my next purchase will be in the 18 to 21mm focal length; the Zeiss 18 is looking pretty good right now... The WATE would be except for the speed/price and that it's workflow appears to be pretty "clunky".

JohnS.

 

[tedwhite]

If I had a Leica, which currently I don't but soon will have an M6, I won't care what lens is on it nor who made it as long as it does the job I want it to do. The rest is up to me.

If I got my friend's M6 tomorrow I'd only have two lenses for it: the cv 35/2.5 Color Skopar and the Canon 50/1.8. Both would require adapters. I'm quite pleased with the performance of both lenses, which I have used on my Bessa R for some time now.

Would I like to have a Summicron? Of course. But I can't afford a Summicron right now.

Will I get better pictures with my M6 using the same lenses I've used on my Bessa R? Hardly. What I'm paying for is the name, the panache, the whisper sound of the shutter, and the reliability.

What I don't like about a Leica is that it's a bottom loader. Yeah, I know, the camera body is more rigid, but my God, if things are happening fast in front of you, sheesh! I know, Winograd said there are no pictures when I'm loading my Leica.

He's right.

But I'm still going to buy the Leica anyway. There are some things a person ought have, depending on his or her tastes. For me, a Leica, a well-made German or Italian car (I have a Passat),a house where you want it to be (I'm still working on that, but one could argue that Southeast Arizona is preferable to Northeast North Dakota).

I still maintain that what matters most is not the camera, but the photograph you make. If it evokes an emotional response in the viewer, and if it pleases you in the bargain, life is good.

 

[Photon42]

[...]
What I don't like about a Leica is that it's a bottom loader. Yeah, I know, the camera body is more rigid, but my God, if things are happening fast in front of you, sheesh!
[...]

My perception is, the Leica film loading style is just different, not worse. As with most new or different things, it requires some attention at first. It took a roll of old film, the manual which happened to survive (!) and did some 20 test loads.

I have to say, I am not particularly faster with for example a Nikon F2. Now I even prefer the L-style. Strange, isn't it.

A film camera with fixed lenses has some advantages, but of course as well some weaknesses compared to a DSLR with a nice zoom lens and a large battery pack.

Regards
Ivo

 

[wgerrard]

...
There is an obvious build quality difference...
Cheers Andrew.

Not to take issue with Andrew, but how do we know that? Every time the "Leica versus anyone else" discussion comes up, we see that phrase used without qualification.

Are there specific criteria we can use to measure the build quality of a lens? If we took 6 CV lenses and 6 Leica lenses, stripped them of all identifying marks, and asked a panel of experts to assess their build quality, what would they look at?

Obviously, there is a threshold below which lack of quality becomes obvious. Assuming that Leica, Zeiss, Canon, Nikon, CV, etc., make lenses that exceed that threshold, what else is important?


Serious question.

 

[kevin m]

Serious question.

There's no simple answer. All of the "classic" lenses I've seen from the post-war era are better than "well-made," they're little jewels. It's as if there was a camera building Olympics going on, and every maker was trying to win the gold medal.

Nowadays the optics are better, but the lavish attention to detail is missing, even at Leica. Still, I'd have to say that regarding the feel in the hand, Voigtlander lags behind not only Leica, but Konica and Zeiss, too. Some of their lenses are better built than others (the 40mm Nokton comes to mind) but they don't have that quality feel in the hand that distinguishes the other makers. Feel the aperture ring on any Hexanon lens and compare it to any VC lens, for example. And some of the VC lenses look as though they were painted with a spray can, frankly.

I'm not ragging on VC, I've owned several of their lenses and have been pleased. The optical performance is very, very good and mine have been mechanically reliable.