Larnus
Newbie
Hi Guys,
I just rolled the dice on a 1962 Zorki 6. I'm totally new to Rangefinders - I have Minolta, Canon and Konica SLR's.
The camera comes with an Industar 50mm F/3.5 lens. I'm looking for a wide angle (at least 38mm) to fit on the camera. So far I've narrowed two potentials candidates down:
I'm also at a loss what the difference between M39/L39 and what fits other Rangerfinders like the Contax copies. At least the Kit Industar should work right?!
I will wait for my camera to arrive to make sure it works OK, but I've still got some GAS left over - so need to research a wider lens for my new pet.
I got this fine looking thing from the Bay from a seller who seems to have a spotless record (thus far) and was quite responsive to questions:
I just rolled the dice on a 1962 Zorki 6. I'm totally new to Rangefinders - I have Minolta, Canon and Konica SLR's.
The camera comes with an Industar 50mm F/3.5 lens. I'm looking for a wide angle (at least 38mm) to fit on the camera. So far I've narrowed two potentials candidates down:
- Jupiter 12 (35mm 2.8)
- Mir 1b (some say 1v) (37mm 2.8)
I'm also at a loss what the difference between M39/L39 and what fits other Rangerfinders like the Contax copies. At least the Kit Industar should work right?!
I will wait for my camera to arrive to make sure it works OK, but I've still got some GAS left over - so need to research a wider lens for my new pet.
I got this fine looking thing from the Bay from a seller who seems to have a spotless record (thus far) and was quite responsive to questions:
wolves3012
Veteran
First off, welcome to FSU ownership. The good news is, a Zorki 6 is generally quite reliable and has one of the best VF/RFs in FSU-land, bright, accurate and good contrast. Hopefully, it will work well but some minor fettling isn't too hard a task if it needs it. The lever-wind *can* be a bit tractor-like, depending on what gauge wire the factory had in stock for the spring. Mine is very heavyweight but it works well enough.
As far as wideangle lenses go, you have a choice of 35mm Jupiter 12, 28mm Orion or 20mm Russar. The J-12 is the only sensibly-priced one of those, Orions and Russars are usually to be found at silly prices. If you need wider than 35mm, it might be worth looking at CV or others. Do NOT buy the Mir, it is not designed for RF use - it's an SLR lens for the 39mm-mount early Zenits (usually known as M39). As such, it will actually fit but it will not focus at any setting whatever; nor does it have RF-coupling of course.
Likewise, beware of lenses like the Jupiter 11 135mm that also come in SLR and RF varieties. Do your homework before buying or trying lenses other than the FSU ones designed for it. If it's an L39 that *usually* means it's a 39mm thread-mount intended for Leica-type mount. However, the FSU cameras require a fully-cylindrical RF cam, which certain (non-FSU) lenses do not have. Kiev/Contax is a bayonet mount and quite different, totally incompatible with L39.
The Zorki 6, like nearly all FSUs, does not have framelines so you'll need some sort of accessory finder for anything other than 50mm.
As far as wideangle lenses go, you have a choice of 35mm Jupiter 12, 28mm Orion or 20mm Russar. The J-12 is the only sensibly-priced one of those, Orions and Russars are usually to be found at silly prices. If you need wider than 35mm, it might be worth looking at CV or others. Do NOT buy the Mir, it is not designed for RF use - it's an SLR lens for the 39mm-mount early Zenits (usually known as M39). As such, it will actually fit but it will not focus at any setting whatever; nor does it have RF-coupling of course.
Likewise, beware of lenses like the Jupiter 11 135mm that also come in SLR and RF varieties. Do your homework before buying or trying lenses other than the FSU ones designed for it. If it's an L39 that *usually* means it's a 39mm thread-mount intended for Leica-type mount. However, the FSU cameras require a fully-cylindrical RF cam, which certain (non-FSU) lenses do not have. Kiev/Contax is a bayonet mount and quite different, totally incompatible with L39.
The Zorki 6, like nearly all FSUs, does not have framelines so you'll need some sort of accessory finder for anything other than 50mm.
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t6un
Established
Your Mir is a lens for early soviet SLR's. They used a mount that was physically identical to RF mount but much farther from film plane, and without the RF coupling, of course.
But, theoretically you could use it with your Zorki: The rear part of your industar is nothing but an adapter that compensates for the different register distances. Still at scale focus only.
And Mir compromises image quality for the space for mirror, Jupiter is just a better lens.
But, theoretically you could use it with your Zorki: The rear part of your industar is nothing but an adapter that compensates for the different register distances. Still at scale focus only.
And Mir compromises image quality for the space for mirror, Jupiter is just a better lens.
konicaman
konicaman
Welcome to the FSU world. I am sorry to inform you that it is all downhill from now on - in other words: You will be hooked
The Jupiter 12 is a very nice lens; most copies are rather sharp and contrasty. Be careful with the protruding back element both when mounting and storing.
I find that the Mir-1 is a rather good lens (and no - it is, as stated above, not suitable for a rangefinder camera), especially the later M42 model which I have been using with adapters on both Canon EOSs and Fuji X-E1. It is not a Voigtländer or Leica lens, but nice and relatively cheap. Also works nicely on other M42 cameras like Spotmatic or whatever.
I have had a couple of Orions - and I am not impressed; soft and low contrast. Also the price range is ridiculous IMHO
The Jupiter 12 is a very nice lens; most copies are rather sharp and contrasty. Be careful with the protruding back element both when mounting and storing.
I find that the Mir-1 is a rather good lens (and no - it is, as stated above, not suitable for a rangefinder camera), especially the later M42 model which I have been using with adapters on both Canon EOSs and Fuji X-E1. It is not a Voigtländer or Leica lens, but nice and relatively cheap. Also works nicely on other M42 cameras like Spotmatic or whatever.
I have had a couple of Orions - and I am not impressed; soft and low contrast. Also the price range is ridiculous IMHO
Larnus
Newbie
Thanks guys, firstly for the warm welcome, and secondly for the nuggets of great information which will help a lot!
Wolve's response on lenses should be in the sticky-faq!
After checking on the bay it seems like the J12 is a lot more expensive in L39 compared with the Kiev/Contax mounts, plus less plentiful. Am I quite restricted regarding types of lenses I can use overall then? I went with the Zorki 6 due to it being more recent (more reliable?), and most importantly has a brighter finder (I'm a bit obsessed with bright finders after being spoilt by the huge bright finder in my Minolta X-300 - which even my Konica FT-1 can't touch - Sorry Konicaman!).
Is $100 around the going price for the J12 then? I think I'll have to wait a few months if so, for it to fly under the Missus's radar!
Regarding CV lenses for L39 - will those work on the Zorki with the RF? I read somewhere that FSU L39 cams don't jive so well with lenses from other manufacturers. It's a shame there's so much contradicting info out on the interwebs - but I guess it makes for a much more dramatic/entertaining gaseous experience!
I was just saying to myself a few weeks ago, I had all the equipment I needed (6 cameras + 20 lenses) - but then I stumbled on these forums. LOL.
Wolve's response on lenses should be in the sticky-faq!
After checking on the bay it seems like the J12 is a lot more expensive in L39 compared with the Kiev/Contax mounts, plus less plentiful. Am I quite restricted regarding types of lenses I can use overall then? I went with the Zorki 6 due to it being more recent (more reliable?), and most importantly has a brighter finder (I'm a bit obsessed with bright finders after being spoilt by the huge bright finder in my Minolta X-300 - which even my Konica FT-1 can't touch - Sorry Konicaman!).
Is $100 around the going price for the J12 then? I think I'll have to wait a few months if so, for it to fly under the Missus's radar!
Regarding CV lenses for L39 - will those work on the Zorki with the RF? I read somewhere that FSU L39 cams don't jive so well with lenses from other manufacturers. It's a shame there's so much contradicting info out on the interwebs - but I guess it makes for a much more dramatic/entertaining gaseous experience!
I was just saying to myself a few weeks ago, I had all the equipment I needed (6 cameras + 20 lenses) - but then I stumbled on these forums. LOL.
wolves3012
Veteran
Yes, for some odd reason the L39 J-12 is generally dearer than Kiev-mount (possibly because it has more applications, body-wise?). FSU prices do seem to have increased somewhat on places like Ebay, although it seems to me that a lot of the over-priced stuff simply fails to sell. I would have thought you could snag one for under $100 though, that seems too high.
On the use of other lenses than FSU, yes there is a discrepancy between the FSU and Leica/others standard for the focus-throw of the cams. It's a small difference but it can be significant with some lenses. The problem is of increasing concern if a lens has longer focal length, larger aperture or is used at closer focus distances. For wideangle lenses, the error is usually covered by depth-of-field and goes unnoticed but for a fast 50mm used wide open it's likely to be a problem.
P.S. I can confirm that konicaman is likely to be right, FSUs can become addictive! Also, just to agree with you that the Minolta acute-matte screens are wonderfully bright.
On the use of other lenses than FSU, yes there is a discrepancy between the FSU and Leica/others standard for the focus-throw of the cams. It's a small difference but it can be significant with some lenses. The problem is of increasing concern if a lens has longer focal length, larger aperture or is used at closer focus distances. For wideangle lenses, the error is usually covered by depth-of-field and goes unnoticed but for a fast 50mm used wide open it's likely to be a problem.
P.S. I can confirm that konicaman is likely to be right, FSUs can become addictive! Also, just to agree with you that the Minolta acute-matte screens are wonderfully bright.
David Hughes
David Hughes
Hi,
I'll agree with the others but I'll add that reasonably priced lenses do exist. You just have to wait a while as they are not kept in stock these days. It just depends on the day's offerings.
Sometimes it's cheaper to buy the lens with the camera body as no one seems to want them then, then you get the slippery slope even steeper and slipperier...
Have fun.
Regards, David
I'll agree with the others but I'll add that reasonably priced lenses do exist. You just have to wait a while as they are not kept in stock these days. It just depends on the day's offerings.
Sometimes it's cheaper to buy the lens with the camera body as no one seems to want them then, then you get the slippery slope even steeper and slipperier...
Have fun.
Regards, David
Larnus
Newbie
Wolves - Well some of the sellers are selling at ~$100 including postage - so I guess you could deem that as $80?
I saw some fun "Optical Pieces" which is the entire lens unit for around $25. Shouldn't a mount go for less than that? Is it possible to put a DIY kit together for one?
David - I know about outfit-buys quite well, I bought a Minolta XG with a Vivitar Series 1 70-210/3.5, Minolta 28/2.8 (mint orig. box), and Minolta 50/1.7 for $20 - I told them to dump the camera body & flash unit to reduce transport costs! Selling 50/1.7 locally (in HK) cancelled my expenses.
I saw some fun "Optical Pieces" which is the entire lens unit for around $25. Shouldn't a mount go for less than that? Is it possible to put a DIY kit together for one?
David - I know about outfit-buys quite well, I bought a Minolta XG with a Vivitar Series 1 70-210/3.5, Minolta 28/2.8 (mint orig. box), and Minolta 50/1.7 for $20 - I told them to dump the camera body & flash unit to reduce transport costs! Selling 50/1.7 locally (in HK) cancelled my expenses.
wolves3012
Veteran
Possibly $100 including postage isn't too bad then. As far as making one from parts is concerned, I would advise against it. For one thing, each optical unit fits onto the mount with unique shims to adjust correct focus. That means you'd need to establish the correct shim thickness and make them. It can be done, with the right equipment and expertise but it's not a simple task and is liable to lead to disappointment.
rfaspen
[insert pithy phrase here]
I think, in general, that good FSU gear is definitely going up in price. I've only been serious about FSU stuff for the last 5 years or so, but I've been an avid "accumulator" of photo gear for at least 30 years. I remember when FSU was considered cheap (price and quality) and we looked down on it as the source of all those gawdy Leica fakes. The awful fakes are still around and even those are commanding real money these days!
Truth is: There's nice FSU cameras and lenses. I'm among the surprised. There's junk too. Educate yourself and you'll be nothing but happy.
CV wide angle lenses work fine on FSU bodies. I use a 21/4 and 35/2.5 on my Zorki C, Fed 3, Zorki 6, and Fed 1 with great results (to me at least). Conversely, I also use the J-12 on Leica screwmount, CV Bessa, Canon screwmount, and Leica M. Works quite nice. I like the results I get with the CV 35/2.5 more, but its purely a matter of personal taste. Someone said it above; You generally need to avoid focus cams that aren't circular (and wide helps too). The incompatibilities you read about on the web are mostly unimportant. wolves described one of them, there are some other issues too. These issues vary with time period, manufacturer, and type of equipment. In general, really old FSU will present some problems, really new stuff will not, but overall quality of build tends to be lower. Now, to confuse things, some older lenses are definitely better and more desirable, while the newer versions not so much. Actually its all fun stuff to learn about. Educate yourself and you'll be happier.
I would avoid the "optical blocks" offered on the bay. Not worth your time and not practical. Yeah, the Kiev/Contax versions of J-12 are out there for cheap and the LTM versions keep going up in price. Frustrating, but its an indication of how nice an LTM J-12 can be, and how many people are discovering that. I'm aware that unless you can find a sane source for these things, the going price really is $100, even more. I think Fedka.com (an honest, reliable business with excellent customer service) wants well over $100 for J-12s. I occasionally see them here on RFF for around $80. If one comes up, grab it without thinking twice. First of all, it will be a reasonable price, second of all, it will come from an RFF member (I guess check to make sure) who typically will know if the lens is a good one or a dog. I trust these folks to know what they're talking about. Really early J-12s are desirable because they often have genuine Zeiss optical (and other) elements. Some really early lenses are fully Zeiss that were just assembled in the Soviet Union. Some people think that the later lenses (e.g., the black lenses) are lower quality, but then some people think they're better (except for the real early ZK I mentioned). I find that you just need to get a lens that isn't beat up on the glass. I have a 70's era black J-12 that's great. I have a 60's era chrome that's great. They both have unmarked, clear glass. What I'm saying is, just get one in good condition. If you can get an accompanying viewfinder, that would be especially nice. You might think you can get by without it and guesstimate 35 coverage, but its so much nicer to have the viewfinder. Funny thing is I don't have the FSU viewfinder, but rather the CV version. I love that one. I'm told the FSU viewfinder is perfectly nice. Try to get it.
Avoid the Orion or the Russar. Way overpriced for dismal specs. CV, Canon, Komura, etc. will be a better pursuit. And don't hesitate to pick up a nice Fed 2 or Zorki C (S). For me, those are probably the best bang for the buck among FSU bodies. Welcome aboard...
Truth is: There's nice FSU cameras and lenses. I'm among the surprised. There's junk too. Educate yourself and you'll be nothing but happy.
CV wide angle lenses work fine on FSU bodies. I use a 21/4 and 35/2.5 on my Zorki C, Fed 3, Zorki 6, and Fed 1 with great results (to me at least). Conversely, I also use the J-12 on Leica screwmount, CV Bessa, Canon screwmount, and Leica M. Works quite nice. I like the results I get with the CV 35/2.5 more, but its purely a matter of personal taste. Someone said it above; You generally need to avoid focus cams that aren't circular (and wide helps too). The incompatibilities you read about on the web are mostly unimportant. wolves described one of them, there are some other issues too. These issues vary with time period, manufacturer, and type of equipment. In general, really old FSU will present some problems, really new stuff will not, but overall quality of build tends to be lower. Now, to confuse things, some older lenses are definitely better and more desirable, while the newer versions not so much. Actually its all fun stuff to learn about. Educate yourself and you'll be happier.
I would avoid the "optical blocks" offered on the bay. Not worth your time and not practical. Yeah, the Kiev/Contax versions of J-12 are out there for cheap and the LTM versions keep going up in price. Frustrating, but its an indication of how nice an LTM J-12 can be, and how many people are discovering that. I'm aware that unless you can find a sane source for these things, the going price really is $100, even more. I think Fedka.com (an honest, reliable business with excellent customer service) wants well over $100 for J-12s. I occasionally see them here on RFF for around $80. If one comes up, grab it without thinking twice. First of all, it will be a reasonable price, second of all, it will come from an RFF member (I guess check to make sure) who typically will know if the lens is a good one or a dog. I trust these folks to know what they're talking about. Really early J-12s are desirable because they often have genuine Zeiss optical (and other) elements. Some really early lenses are fully Zeiss that were just assembled in the Soviet Union. Some people think that the later lenses (e.g., the black lenses) are lower quality, but then some people think they're better (except for the real early ZK I mentioned). I find that you just need to get a lens that isn't beat up on the glass. I have a 70's era black J-12 that's great. I have a 60's era chrome that's great. They both have unmarked, clear glass. What I'm saying is, just get one in good condition. If you can get an accompanying viewfinder, that would be especially nice. You might think you can get by without it and guesstimate 35 coverage, but its so much nicer to have the viewfinder. Funny thing is I don't have the FSU viewfinder, but rather the CV version. I love that one. I'm told the FSU viewfinder is perfectly nice. Try to get it.
Avoid the Orion or the Russar. Way overpriced for dismal specs. CV, Canon, Komura, etc. will be a better pursuit. And don't hesitate to pick up a nice Fed 2 or Zorki C (S). For me, those are probably the best bang for the buck among FSU bodies. Welcome aboard...
reagan
hey, they're only Zorkis
Gotta weigh in. Jupiter.12 and Orion.15 are my two mains. Bought the Orion years ago and even then it was ridiculous $$. I was physically ill I had paid that much for an old Russian lens. What was I thinking? But once in hand, it soon won me over. Yes, it's old and slow, but I prefer f8 light anyway, so not an issue in my world.
Bottom line, Old Russian cameras + Old Russian wides = Good Kit/Fun Stuff.
PS - my Zorki.5 / Orion.15
Bottom line, Old Russian cameras + Old Russian wides = Good Kit/Fun Stuff.
PS - my Zorki.5 / Orion.15
CliveC
Well-known
I paid $90 for a Jupiter 12 recently from a local person. Nice lens for my Ricoh GXR (a lot more useful with the crop factor), but doesn't seem to be quite as "magical" as the Jupiter 8.
It's a pity there weren't more wide lenses from the FSU.
It's a pity there weren't more wide lenses from the FSU.
Larnus
Newbie
It's been a few months, and I've finally finished putting my first roll through the Zorki.
I've definitely found it refreshing not using automatic metering that I've always had in my digital cameras - oh and my cheap but lovely Minolta X300. However, I've been totally confused by the Fred Parker Sunny 16 charts which say ISO 200 should use a longer shutter speed than ISO 100 film! Or I might just be reading them wrong *face-palm* (50,000 photographers can't be wrong!).
If my first roll is successful (proving my Zorki 6 buy + kit 50/3.5 were a good investment), I will get the wide angle I've been saving for. However, I discovered today that the J12 doesn't work on my NEX-C3 due to the sensor mount getting in the way. I know it's anti-puritanical to need the lens to work on digital - but I now need to seek an alternative.
Any thoughts on alternatives between $100-$250? I am looking at the Canon 35/2.8-3.2 Serenars that are fetching close to $200. Or should I need to look at wider aperture Voightlanders like the 35/2.5 which are 3-4x my original budget *YIKES!*.
Or I could just blow the pennies on J12 to use on a future Sony A7-equivalent I'm planning to get in 12-18mths time - since it's been proven to fit due to the increased sensor mount fixture size!
I've definitely found it refreshing not using automatic metering that I've always had in my digital cameras - oh and my cheap but lovely Minolta X300. However, I've been totally confused by the Fred Parker Sunny 16 charts which say ISO 200 should use a longer shutter speed than ISO 100 film! Or I might just be reading them wrong *face-palm* (50,000 photographers can't be wrong!).
If my first roll is successful (proving my Zorki 6 buy + kit 50/3.5 were a good investment), I will get the wide angle I've been saving for. However, I discovered today that the J12 doesn't work on my NEX-C3 due to the sensor mount getting in the way. I know it's anti-puritanical to need the lens to work on digital - but I now need to seek an alternative.
Any thoughts on alternatives between $100-$250? I am looking at the Canon 35/2.8-3.2 Serenars that are fetching close to $200. Or should I need to look at wider aperture Voightlanders like the 35/2.5 which are 3-4x my original budget *YIKES!*.
Or I could just blow the pennies on J12 to use on a future Sony A7-equivalent I'm planning to get in 12-18mths time - since it's been proven to fit due to the increased sensor mount fixture size!
Dez
Bodger Extraordinaire
The J12 is still your best bet for an FSU camera, but there is a good chance it will never fit any modern digital camera. They are good lenses, so much cheaper than any other lens in this FL, and you could afford to dedicate one to your film cameras. This lens will work on any 35mm FSU camera, any Canon that mere mortals can afford, any screw-mount Leica clone, and any M leica except the CL and M5.
There is an alternative that you will see from time to time, the Industar 69 28mm lens. This lens was for the Chaika HALF-FRAME camera and will not cover the whole 35mm field. However, I suspect it would do a decent job on smaller-format digital cameras with the right adapter. It is dirt cheap.
The Orion is a pretty good lens, and I actually have one for sale in the Classifieds at the moment, but one downside of 28mm lenses is that the finders will cost you $$. Cheap plastic Russian finders are available for 35 and 85mm focal lengths on ebay, and they do the job just fine. Come to think of it, the fairly cheap Russian turret finder includes everything from 28-135mm, but is big and clunky.
I have bought a lot of gear from Russian and Ukrainian vendors on ebay, and have never had a problem. There are a few rules you need to follow to get a good reliable item from the FSU:
- go for a vendor with lots of positive feedback
- avoid vendors who list things like fake Leicas without making it very clear in the listing that it is fake. If they lie about one thing, they will lie about others.
- avoid vendors who say everything is RARE. Most FSU gear is common as dirt.
- some vendors will describe the item in detail. That's a good sign. Ask detailed and specific questions about the condition of the article. If they don't answer, don't buy.
You need to be a bit careful and get your questions answered up front. Postage to and from Russia is slow and expensive. A money-back guarantee is not worth much if the shipping costs to return the item are almost as much as the original cost.
Enjoy your Zorki 6. It is a really nice camera to use, and capable of excellent results.
Cheers,
Dez
There is an alternative that you will see from time to time, the Industar 69 28mm lens. This lens was for the Chaika HALF-FRAME camera and will not cover the whole 35mm field. However, I suspect it would do a decent job on smaller-format digital cameras with the right adapter. It is dirt cheap.
The Orion is a pretty good lens, and I actually have one for sale in the Classifieds at the moment, but one downside of 28mm lenses is that the finders will cost you $$. Cheap plastic Russian finders are available for 35 and 85mm focal lengths on ebay, and they do the job just fine. Come to think of it, the fairly cheap Russian turret finder includes everything from 28-135mm, but is big and clunky.
I have bought a lot of gear from Russian and Ukrainian vendors on ebay, and have never had a problem. There are a few rules you need to follow to get a good reliable item from the FSU:
- go for a vendor with lots of positive feedback
- avoid vendors who list things like fake Leicas without making it very clear in the listing that it is fake. If they lie about one thing, they will lie about others.
- avoid vendors who say everything is RARE. Most FSU gear is common as dirt.
- some vendors will describe the item in detail. That's a good sign. Ask detailed and specific questions about the condition of the article. If they don't answer, don't buy.
You need to be a bit careful and get your questions answered up front. Postage to and from Russia is slow and expensive. A money-back guarantee is not worth much if the shipping costs to return the item are almost as much as the original cost.
Enjoy your Zorki 6. It is a really nice camera to use, and capable of excellent results.
Cheers,
Dez
Bar8barian
Established
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julio1fer
Well-known
The J-12 would be the right 35mm lens to use in a Zorki-6. For shorter focal lengths, I'd suggest going for the modern CV lenses. Rangefinders are not the best types for using telephoto lenses, especially if you are a SLR user.
If you can guess focus distances, you may have a lot of fun with an adapter from M39 rangefinder bodies to M42 SLR lenses.
I assume that you already know that you need an external viewfinder in order to use focal lengths other than 50mm in your Z-6. There is a very classy Soviet turret-type viewfinder, covering 28 to 135mm.
Finally, FWIW, Russien glass for Kiev tyoes is, in my experience, better and cheaper than screwmount versions of the same lenses.
If you can guess focus distances, you may have a lot of fun with an adapter from M39 rangefinder bodies to M42 SLR lenses.
I assume that you already know that you need an external viewfinder in order to use focal lengths other than 50mm in your Z-6. There is a very classy Soviet turret-type viewfinder, covering 28 to 135mm.
Finally, FWIW, Russien glass for Kiev tyoes is, in my experience, better and cheaper than screwmount versions of the same lenses.
Wulfthari
Well-known
I would suggest the J-12 over the Orion for a Z6 because the Orion is a very good lens but slow and you might be needing slower shutter speeds.
My J12 is as good as a Leitz Summaron even if this statement makes Leicamen nervous:
My J12 is as good as a Leitz Summaron even if this statement makes Leicamen nervous:
Ko.Fe.
Lenses 35/21 Gears 46/20
You will need 35mm OVF, which is $50 at least. With 150-200 here is nothing, but J12 and OVF.