Graybeard
Longtime IIIf User
I have, and regularly use, both marques of cameras; one of the Horizons has been with me since 2002. Permit me to ramble-
This winter I've been working with my negative archive, making some large prints for framing/hanging/exhibiting. I format to use one-half of a sheet of paper for each panoramic print. These are 8"x20" (or whatever that works out to be for for my Canadian neighbors and others so metrically inclined).
I'm generally printing about 80-85% of the image on the original negatives. I use a Beseler 23C, VC head, and either 60mm Rodagon or 60mm Componon. My enlargers have all been leveled and aligned and are "on the money". For me, the iris opening/stop down lever on the Componon is more convenient to use and I prefer that lens.
All that said, I find that the Widelux has a sharper lens. To my eye, the difference is barely noticeable in a 5 x14 print (half an 11x14 sheet) but is noticeable in a side-by-side comparison with 8x20 prints. With no Widelux-originating prints to serve for comparison, one would find scant reason not to be pleased with an Horizon 8x20 panoramic print (remember all, that prints are intended for viewer some 30" away).
Downside issues for the Horizons: the gearing in the Horizons (I have two, one purchased new and the other near new, what I write here I find true for both of them) has so much mechanical advantage that it is easy to inadvertently break the film inside the camera when winding. On one vacation trip (Venice), I found it necessary to have the chef in my hotel provide me with some aluminum foil to wrap/package the broken ribbon of film in my Horizon (which I did that evening nel bagno). Glad that I did, there were some nice shots on that broken roll.
Upside considerations for the Horizon: these are rugged beasts. After 15 years, my original Horizon developed a jammed shutter. I removed the plastic housing (the Horizon has steel internals) and freed the shutter by working (read wiggling) it back and forth. When I reassembled everything, I had a (roughly) 1/4" ID washer left over, a washer that I never removed (I keep working notes, I'm a retired scientist). One presumes that this was the culprit, jamming itself in the shutter clockwork. The camera is working fine now.
A sophisticated camera, such as the Horizon, that can be repaired, in the field, with a pair of pliers and a screwdriver, is a valuable thing, indeed. My Speed Graphics are in this category. If you go wandering with an Horizon, a set of jewelers screwdrivers and a pair of needle-nose pliers might prove handy. Not only for your photographic gear, one might add.
My Widelux, after service by a proper guru, functions as it should. It lives in a plastic food bag when not in use to keep debris/foreign matter/oobleck (Dr Suess readers will need no explanation for the term) out of the turret mechanism.
Conclusions (of course, IMHO and YMMY). I'll carry the Widelux on trips where I'm hoping to (later) make prints suitable for wall hanging/exhibition.
The Horizon 202's go with me for any other panoramic shoots
Good light to all..
I
This winter I've been working with my negative archive, making some large prints for framing/hanging/exhibiting. I format to use one-half of a sheet of paper for each panoramic print. These are 8"x20" (or whatever that works out to be for for my Canadian neighbors and others so metrically inclined).
I'm generally printing about 80-85% of the image on the original negatives. I use a Beseler 23C, VC head, and either 60mm Rodagon or 60mm Componon. My enlargers have all been leveled and aligned and are "on the money". For me, the iris opening/stop down lever on the Componon is more convenient to use and I prefer that lens.
All that said, I find that the Widelux has a sharper lens. To my eye, the difference is barely noticeable in a 5 x14 print (half an 11x14 sheet) but is noticeable in a side-by-side comparison with 8x20 prints. With no Widelux-originating prints to serve for comparison, one would find scant reason not to be pleased with an Horizon 8x20 panoramic print (remember all, that prints are intended for viewer some 30" away).
Downside issues for the Horizons: the gearing in the Horizons (I have two, one purchased new and the other near new, what I write here I find true for both of them) has so much mechanical advantage that it is easy to inadvertently break the film inside the camera when winding. On one vacation trip (Venice), I found it necessary to have the chef in my hotel provide me with some aluminum foil to wrap/package the broken ribbon of film in my Horizon (which I did that evening nel bagno). Glad that I did, there were some nice shots on that broken roll.
Upside considerations for the Horizon: these are rugged beasts. After 15 years, my original Horizon developed a jammed shutter. I removed the plastic housing (the Horizon has steel internals) and freed the shutter by working (read wiggling) it back and forth. When I reassembled everything, I had a (roughly) 1/4" ID washer left over, a washer that I never removed (I keep working notes, I'm a retired scientist). One presumes that this was the culprit, jamming itself in the shutter clockwork. The camera is working fine now.
A sophisticated camera, such as the Horizon, that can be repaired, in the field, with a pair of pliers and a screwdriver, is a valuable thing, indeed. My Speed Graphics are in this category. If you go wandering with an Horizon, a set of jewelers screwdrivers and a pair of needle-nose pliers might prove handy. Not only for your photographic gear, one might add.
My Widelux, after service by a proper guru, functions as it should. It lives in a plastic food bag when not in use to keep debris/foreign matter/oobleck (Dr Suess readers will need no explanation for the term) out of the turret mechanism.
Conclusions (of course, IMHO and YMMY). I'll carry the Widelux on trips where I'm hoping to (later) make prints suitable for wall hanging/exhibition.
The Horizon 202's go with me for any other panoramic shoots
Good light to all..
I
x-ray
Veteran
I owned for several years a Widelux 7, Horizon 202, original all metal Horizon and Horizon Perfekt. The only one I currently have now is the Perfekt. My big complaint with the Widelux was banding due to issues with the gears. I wound up having it repaired several times but it eventually developed banding each time. I'm very familiar in proper use so that was not the problem. It just seems to be a problem with some of the Widelux.
My original Horizont was a very sharp and dependable camera but felt like it had been forged on an anvil.
I purchased a new Horizon Perfekt about ten or so years ago. It has never given an issue of any sort producing sharp, banding free and evenly exposed negs. I generally set print B&W and rarely go above 14 inches. I did however produce some 36 inch prints for one of my clients and was extremely pleased with the images. I shot transparency film and scanned it on my Imacon 848.
A couple of years ago I bought a used 202 for $25. I used it along side my Perfekt and couldn't see any difference in image quality. The one thing I like about the Perfekt is the wider shutter speed range. All 3 of the Russian cameras produced equally as sharp, evenly exposed and banding free images.
I wet printed many of the negs from each but never did a scientific side by side comparison of negs shot at the same time of the same subject but in practical use all produced equally as good images. The exception was when the Widelux was banding.
For my money I'll take any of the Russian cameras over the F7 due to reliability.
I will agree that the 202 winding mechanism has tremendous torque and one time I shredded some film without knowing. I've not had that happen with the Perfekt.
My original Horizont was a very sharp and dependable camera but felt like it had been forged on an anvil.
I purchased a new Horizon Perfekt about ten or so years ago. It has never given an issue of any sort producing sharp, banding free and evenly exposed negs. I generally set print B&W and rarely go above 14 inches. I did however produce some 36 inch prints for one of my clients and was extremely pleased with the images. I shot transparency film and scanned it on my Imacon 848.
A couple of years ago I bought a used 202 for $25. I used it along side my Perfekt and couldn't see any difference in image quality. The one thing I like about the Perfekt is the wider shutter speed range. All 3 of the Russian cameras produced equally as sharp, evenly exposed and banding free images.
I wet printed many of the negs from each but never did a scientific side by side comparison of negs shot at the same time of the same subject but in practical use all produced equally as good images. The exception was when the Widelux was banding.
For my money I'll take any of the Russian cameras over the F7 due to reliability.
I will agree that the 202 winding mechanism has tremendous torque and one time I shredded some film without knowing. I've not had that happen with the Perfekt.
x-ray
Veteran
Let me add that the best of the best that Ive owned was my Roundshot 35/35. Unfortunately it must be used on a tripod. I did a lot of annual report work and work for golf courses with it. The 35/35 does 360 degree images which are 1x12 inches. From thectransparencies I did many 12 foot and longer prints of golf courses That were spectacular.
Huss
Veteran
I had the Horizon Perfekt, the Widelux F8 and the Noblex 135 Sport at the same time.
My favourite one to use was the Horizon, due to its shutter speed selection and how the shutter and aperture worked together (and can only be set if the shutter is cocked). But mainly because the VF has the bubble level visible in it. Which was very cool.
The shape was great and conducive to holding it easily.
The Widelux F8 - I found one in perfect like new condition - I bought mainly because of The Dood's (Jeff Bridges) website. In use I hated it! Ergos were horrible to me, and so were the very limited shutter speeds.
The Noblex 135 Sport - pretty much a modern version of the Perfekt except it was lacking the Perfekt's wonderful level in the VF. I had mine overhauled by Precision Camera Repair.
I found them all sharp, perhaps the Noblex was the sharpest. They all had that weird flare shadow if the sun was in the exact wrong position - where it appears that 1/4 to 1/3 of the frame is in shade. Some claimed that only the cheap Horizon did that, but no, all my cameras did that.
I sold the Perfekt because of quality control issues on mine. It had random light leaks that would occur maybe twice a roll. And I never knew when. So sometimes a shot would be ruined by it. Also the back latch never actually latched! I could open and close it at will but interestingly there never was a light leak from this as friction keeping it closed was enough.
I am really tempted to try another Perfekt.
I sold the Widelux because I hated the ergos and the shutter speeds. Also mine was so pretty I was scared to put a mark on it, so I got rid of it for premium $$ while I could.
Kept the Noblex, and glued a bubble level onto where the hot shoe would be. I can now look down and get level shots - which is really needed with these cameras unless you want that crazy bent look.
My Noblex has been mothballed since I bought my Fuji Xpans. Those are awesome in every way. I'm thinking of selling the Noblex because of this - and this one is cherry as during the service they replaced the rollers and made sure the timing was correct.
My favourite one to use was the Horizon, due to its shutter speed selection and how the shutter and aperture worked together (and can only be set if the shutter is cocked). But mainly because the VF has the bubble level visible in it. Which was very cool.
The shape was great and conducive to holding it easily.
The Widelux F8 - I found one in perfect like new condition - I bought mainly because of The Dood's (Jeff Bridges) website. In use I hated it! Ergos were horrible to me, and so were the very limited shutter speeds.
The Noblex 135 Sport - pretty much a modern version of the Perfekt except it was lacking the Perfekt's wonderful level in the VF. I had mine overhauled by Precision Camera Repair.
I found them all sharp, perhaps the Noblex was the sharpest. They all had that weird flare shadow if the sun was in the exact wrong position - where it appears that 1/4 to 1/3 of the frame is in shade. Some claimed that only the cheap Horizon did that, but no, all my cameras did that.
I sold the Perfekt because of quality control issues on mine. It had random light leaks that would occur maybe twice a roll. And I never knew when. So sometimes a shot would be ruined by it. Also the back latch never actually latched! I could open and close it at will but interestingly there never was a light leak from this as friction keeping it closed was enough.
I am really tempted to try another Perfekt.
I sold the Widelux because I hated the ergos and the shutter speeds. Also mine was so pretty I was scared to put a mark on it, so I got rid of it for premium $$ while I could.
Kept the Noblex, and glued a bubble level onto where the hot shoe would be. I can now look down and get level shots - which is really needed with these cameras unless you want that crazy bent look.
My Noblex has been mothballed since I bought my Fuji Xpans. Those are awesome in every way. I'm thinking of selling the Noblex because of this - and this one is cherry as during the service they replaced the rollers and made sure the timing was correct.
Huss
Veteran
Horizon Perfekt:
Noblex 135 Sport:
Widelux F8:
Fuji TX1. This shot would have caused that shadow flaring in any of the other cameras:
Noblex 135 Sport:
Widelux F8:
Fuji TX1. This shot would have caused that shadow flaring in any of the other cameras:
fotomeow
name under my name
Huss, thx for the pics of the cameras as well as the prints,
It helps those of us looking to pick up such a camera
It helps those of us looking to pick up such a camera
Huss
Veteran
U betcha.
Shadow lens flare with the Noblex:
Shadow lens flare (plus weird sun flare) with the Widelux F8:
Light leak on the Horizon (vertical band just past 13a)
Shadow lens flare with the Noblex:
Shadow lens flare (plus weird sun flare) with the Widelux F8:
Light leak on the Horizon (vertical band just past 13a)
Huss
Veteran
FYI this ebay seller (no affiliation) is selling new Horizon Perfekts w/filter kit, case, handle etc for $185 shipped.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371831517903?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
They are $350 at the lomography site
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371831517903?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
They are $350 at the lomography site