Will a barn doors Vitessa ever be reliable?

[Koolzakukumba]

Hello again Brett,

Thanks to your excellent info, I took the top plate off the Vitessa and gave everything a good clean - apart from the rangefinder which I left well alone. I can now see through the viewfinder! I don't know yet if I'm going to keep the camera but it'll will certainly be better to use now that I can frame a pic.

I wrote about it here: http://www.theonlinedarkroom.com/2014/07/clean-bill-of-health-for-vitessa.html

As I said in the post, the only thing I'm not too happy with is the feel of the focus wheel which is a little rough. I put a drop of light oil in the shaft in which the wheel rotates but maybe I should have used some grease? Here another couple of pics from the Vitessa for decoration. 🙂

 

[kanzlr]

when mine was seriviced I also asked about the rough focusing wheel. I was told thats inherent of how it is engineered.

 

[goamules]

I shot a Vitessa for a couple years, and it worked great. I didn't use the fastest or slowest speeds, a good practice with 50 year old shutters that probably have never been cleaned! Never did a thing to it, except shoot a bunch of film through it.

Honestly, compared to a Contex or Kiev, with their sharp tiny wheel, these focus really well. I liked the plunger mechanism, and especially how small and light they were folded. If you have one that is not working it's simple: sell it, and get one that is.

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Hello again Brett,

Thanks to your excellent info, I took the top plate off the Vitessa and gave everything a good clean - apart from the rangefinder which I left well alone. I can now see through the viewfinder! I don't know yet if I'm going to keep the camera but it'll will certainly be better to use now that I can frame a pic.

I wrote about it here: http://www.theonlinedarkroom.com/2014/07/clean-bill-of-health-for-vitessa.html

As I said in the post, the only thing I'm not too happy with is the feel of the focus wheel which is a little rough. I put a drop of light oil in the shaft in which the wheel rotates but maybe I should have used some grease? Here another couple of pics from the Vitessa for decoration. 🙂

Sorry, I missed seeing this a couple of days ago. I'm glad it went well for you and my comments were helpful. The issue with the focus wheel could be a couple of things. It depends on whether there's any grit or binding of the wheels focus cam or if the issue is with the actual lens mounting as it slides in and out. Remember my remarks about the propensity for the barn door design to encourage junk to accumulate around the back of the bellows, particularly inside the bottom plate? This can also affect the lens mounting as it slides in and out along the focus range. Removing the bottom plate as well and giving everything a good clean improves access and helps to ensure that the moving parts of the folding doors and the focus are clean. It's another reason I think the only way to really get one of these working sweetly, because of the peculiarities of the design, is to take a holistic approach to servicing them and to go right over them. They are pretty things but more than most cameras most parts of their functionality are connected to and dependant on other functions!

From memory I used a very small dab of moly grease on the focusing cam. Because the focus mount is sprung and the cam is under spring tension there's some loading on it as it slides, and I think grease is really more suitable for it than an oil as it can carry the load better.

If the top comes off again don't be afraid to gently clean the rangefinder mirror. Warnings about the fragility of focus mirrors in these old RF systems are often well heeded as some types can be extremely fragile. All I can say is that I gently cleaned mine with lens tissue and lens cleaner and the mirror was just fine. Providing a gentle touch is used you can clean the mirror and various lenses without fear of damaging them...
Cheers,
Brett

 

[svaradi]

Anybody knows how many balls need in the curve tube? I count five in mine Vitesse, but I am not sure this is enough? BTW. What is the size of those balls, if I need more maybe I can put in more balls, if someone tell me exactly the original numbers.
Thanks.

 

[PMCC]

Lots of information here:

http://corsopolaris.net/supercameras/vitessa/vitessaeng.html

Site owner appears amenable to questions.

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Anybody knows how many balls need in the curve tube? I count five in mine Vitesse, but I am not sure this is enough? BTW. What is the size of those balls, if I need more maybe I can put in more balls, if someone tell me exactly the original numbers.
Thanks.

I'd be very surprised if five was anywhere near sufficient, it has been a couple of years since I wrote my posts above and in the interim I have acquired an early(ish) Ultron-equipped specimen with Compur Rapid shutter that is now working very nicely (and not to disparage the excellent Color Skopar lens, but I have to say I can now appreciate all the fuss about the 50mm Ultron, because I think it's a sensational lens).

At the time I recall getting a number of balls out of the tube of my Skopar equipped example (which, sadly, awaits a replacement plunger with its actuating tab intact). More than five, definitely.

Having now worked on an earlier Ultron example as well as a later Skopar, I can see that some of my comments above may be more pertinent to later variations, because the early Ultron has a number of differences, some minor, some quite significant. Eg. the rangefinder unit is quite different in design to the later Skopar type. I think they made it easier to adjust, as setting an early one precisely is, indeed, a bit more tedious than the later type (if not particularly difficult to do, well).

Getting back to those balls. I may have a record of the number needed in my later type (or I may not, you'll have to let me check). But I wouldn't take for granted that the quantity required stayed the same during Vitessa production. Hopefully, yes. But given the number of running changes that were made overall, you can't be certain different quantities might not be needed in different variations, and it may well be a case of trial and error to achieve proper functionality at all focus distances, etc.

As to the size of the balls, needed: this has been mentioned previously above.

What are the details of your own Vitessa?
Cheers,
Brett

 

[svaradi]

My Vitessa Ultron 1:2/50 lens is here. https://flic.kr/s/aHskz8pEpi Unfortunately I can not remove the spots on the front element. I tried with isopropyl alcohol, lighter Fluid, none of it worked. Any other idea? Otherwise the lenses nice and clean. No scratch, no fungus.

PMCC: Thank for the link. I still do not know mine is Vitesse L1 or L2. Rangefinder windows: two square on front and round on the back. What part is the "bubble" should be on L2?
Details: I cleaned all over my Vitesse. Take out the light meter resolder one wire to the sensor, unfortunately hairspring magnetized from my screwdriver, so the needle is always on the bottom of the scale.
I can not remove the film pressure plate, however I lubricated and it is moving smoothly now. Is it any trick to remove the pressure plate? Outside: only one leatherette partly missing one of from the barn door around the flash sync. Regarding the balls, I think some of are missing, however still functioning quite well.
Plunger and film advancing mechanism is working smoothly. Rangefinder mirror was loose inside the top. I glued back to it, but I think it needs replace it later on.

 

[PMCC]

As to the size of the balls, needed: this has been mentioned previously above.

The question comes up a lot in current American electoral campaigns.

P.S. My example is a Vitessa A5 with Syncho-Compur and Ultron 2.0, in very good shape that works a treat. The eccentricity of the mechanism never ceases to delight me in use.

 

[svaradi]

PMCC Thank you for your answer. I research the size of the balls: "1.5 millimetre balls is re-installed"

 

[PMCC]

Svaradi -

Click on the thumbnail photos of the camera models in the right column to see expanded photos showing the details of the differences between the models. An easy to see difference is the meter window cover: one has window-panes, the other has a bubble diffusor. As far as I can tell, the diamond vs. rectangular rangefinder window refers to unmetered "A" models that have a diamond-shaped RF focussing patch. You can see an example of the diamond patch in the small RF window of the camera shown in post #7 of this thread. The original language of the cited website appears to be Italian, so there may be some terminology issues in translation.

Hope this helps.

P.

 

[svaradi]

PMCC -

Thanks for your advice. I contacted Max Bertacchi who confirmed my Vitesse is L1. Here are some pictures:
https://flic.kr/s/aHskz8NyVg
https://flic.kr/s/aHskz8pEpi

 

[PMCC]

Steve,

My pleasure. You're a braver man than I to delve into the guts of that Ultron.

P.

 

[jamin-b]

I made three tries at this -
The first, with a skopar 2.8 lens doesn't properly advance the film because the plunger doesn't work right. It seems like a stripped gear or something

The 2nd, a skopar 3.5 w/o meter works fine, though I am not sure the rangefinder is accurate. This never get used, because....

The 3rd, an Ultron 2.0 with working meter actually performs well, and the few tiomes I actually use this camera I always wonder why i don't more often. With barnyard doors closed, it even fits in a jeans back pocket!

But I know that if the camera ever fails, or rangefinder goes out of whack, I won't have anywhere near the technical prowess to do anything about it...

See some results from the last outing:

Nov15_FP4_R_Vitessa_11 by Ben Sandler, on Flickr

Nov15_FP4_R_Vitessa_2 by Ben Sandler, on Flickr

Apr15_HP5_D_MX_50F2_26-Edit by Ben Sandler, on Flickr

 

[largedrink]

Vitessa top cover help needed

Vitessa top cover help needed

Hi everyone,
I just purchased an older, working Vitessa (I think it's an "A" - without strap lugs, no light meter, no accessory shoe, Compur Rapid shutter, Ultron 2.0 lens). I decided to follow Brett's useful instructions in this thread to remove the top cover and clean the viewfinder which was very grubby.

This went very well, though with this model there didn't seem to be the need to remove the knob off the plunger, everything just slid right off.
As I removed the cover though, 2 small metal parts fell out, and I am struggling to identify exactly where they belong. One is a small thin rectangle with grooves and obvious signs of glue. It's the size of the head of a cotton bud (please see my pics). This part is the one I am most confused by as to where it needs to be glued back to.

The other is a thinner, longer strip or metal with a bluish tinge. I think with this piece I have found the location though, at the top cover itself has a similar piece glued next to the screw hole on one side, like a spacer, but not on the other side - there looks to have been one there previously.
Can anyone help identify or provide pictures of where the metal parts may belong?

I can attach more photos if needed, there seems to be a limit of 3 attachments per post.

Also, it would be good to know which screw is the vertical rangefinder adjustment as there is a small adjustment needed.

Thanks very much.

 

[largedrink]

Adding some more photos pertaining to my previous post:

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Well done on the work so far.
When I originally wrote of my experiences repairing a Vitessa I had been working on a later version. Not an "L", no light meter, however with the integral cold shoe, rather than the slip on shoe the earlier models used. There are some differences along the way. One of these is that the earlier models had a larger hole in the top cover and the plunger knob is not removable (because it does not have to be!). I think this was a better approach for reasons I will get to.

Now, the vertical adjustment. Again, the rangefinders used in early and late types were quite different. Looking at your pic of the top it appears like my second Vitessa, also an early Ultron with Compur Rapid, but not quite as old as yours as it has strap lugs. Looking at the pivot point in the bottom right hand corner of your photo (Ie. as seen from above) there should be an adjuster screw and locking plate or enamel locking paint. This will vary the height of the pivoting mirror, and, hence, the vertical adjustment. Less is more! There is also an adjustable lens between the mirror and viewfinder. This may achieve a similar result possibly? I have not adjusted this, I set the screw described above and it worked well for me.

More later. Roast lamb awaits, now!
Cheers
Brett

 

[largedrink]

Thanks Brett,

I dismantled both ends of the lens and it cleaned up beautifully, apart from a small area of fungus strands, seemingly inside the rear element. Looking forward to trying this camera out too in the near future (it will compete with my Vito III for bag space!).

Posting here a couple more close up pictures of the rangefinder, to make it easier to explain the adjustment. Do you mean to adjust the recessed large black screw, or the small silver screw that is jutting out, to change the vertical alignment?

Thanks again and enjoy your dinner!
Hugh

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

Thanks Brett,

I dismantled both ends of the lens and it cleaned up beautifully, apart from a small area of fungus strands, seemingly inside the rear element. Looking forward to trying this camera out too in the near future (it will compete with my Vito III for bag space!).

Posting here a couple more close up pictures of the rangefinder, to make it easier to explain the adjustment. Do you mean to adjust the recessed large black screw, or the small silver screw that is jutting out, to change the vertical alignment?

Thanks again and enjoy your dinner!
Hugh

Actually, neither of the above, sorry, I think I've led you up the garden path a bit in my haste to get my dinner! If you remove the rangefinder assembly, then, on the underneath of the pivot screw at the corner is a slotted screw head that may be used to raise or lower the mirror. I believe it has a dab of red paint on it to lock it in place so you may need a cotton tip and a dab of acetone to loosen this. At least, I had to.

When you remove the rangefinder assembly, note that whilst it is held quite securely in place by the two mounting screws, there is still a little play in how it may be positioned. I'm not sure it matters where it sits, precisely, when it is installed, but do be aware that if you have the horizontal adjustment spot on, and the rangefinder block is skewed a little in comparison with its previous seating onto the top of the camera, this is, then going to impact how the pivot arm with the peg bears on the frame the lens slides in and out on, and, hence, on the precise horizontal adjustment. It's probably best to do the vertical adjustment, first, get this spot on and then you can dial in the horizontal (distance) adjustment without removing the RF and upsetting the vertical again. 😉

Cheers
Brett

 

[Sarcophilus Harrisii]

PS with the RF assembly, do not touch the two platinum coloured screws on the left side top. You'll have more work to do if you remove these by upsetting more alignments. Forgive me if you have already removed the RF previously, but in the event you haven't the two mounting screws are the darker ones fore and aft of the plunger itself. There will probably be a mounting shim underneath the RF block between the RF and the body. This should be shaped so that it will only fit neatly one way, but keep your eye out for it and ensure it is replaced on re-assembly.