Will the recession decrease the price of a used Noctilux?

most everyone grew up watching movies that were shot with Angenieux lenses. Amazing, amazing, amazing lenses. Would be truly wonderful to have that design available for a rangefinder.
 
marke said:
I feel the same way as you do, Paul. The nocti is just too big for me. After all, I want to keep my RF smaller than my DSLR! And after reading a similar thing about the Summilux, I decided on one (50/1.4) myself. Now I just wish I could afford a 35/1.4 too.
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Marke,
The 35/1.4 ASPH was the single most best lens I ever purchased. I shoot mostly with the 35 so having a fast one was the way to go. In hindsight Im glad I got it.

The Noct -- I think Id prefer to shoot 50/1.2 Hexanon. This lens looks pretty sweet and has great bokeh according to its shooters. And, it costs less than half of the Noct. But for incremental increase might as well stay with the Summilux, a lens for all occasions.
 
I check Ebay from time to time and in the last two month, three Noctilux lenses were sold in the range $3.300 - $3.500 and some more for about $4.000. On the other hand used Hexanon 50/1.2 are in the level of $2.200 on the big auction site.

From the recent price development, I see the Noctilux (used) more in the price region of a mint 6bit coded 50 Summilux ASPH, still a little more expensive but getting close. When the new Noctilux ASPH will hit the shelves it will influence the market for used old Noctilux lenses more (either prices go up OR down) than the recession we have now, IMHO.
 
Tom A said:
The current Noctilux is the 1975 replacement of the Noctilux 50f1.2 It remained virtually unchanged from 1975 to 2008. The production was always small, one figure I heard bandied about some years ago was "around 200 a year" which would give us a figure of 6600-7000 in total production. There were some of these lenses fitted to measuring devices and cameras for CT screens and they might account for some more lens-heads produced.
What is important here is the fact that it was an old design, but apart from the Nikon F1.1, the Canon f1.2, Fuji's 50f1,2 and some very low production runs of fast lenses (Zunow's 50mm f1.1) from other manufacturers, it was the only game in town by 1975. It was always a premium priced lens and in 1975 it was quite sensational. Some people love it, others could'nt care less. I have had 5 of them over the last 33 years + a 50f1.2 Noctilux before that. It become a legend and virtually every M user wanted one, even if it was for a brief time. It is difficult to use well, it is large and truth be told (from my own point of view) results could be called uneven.
Most Noctiluxes go through more owners than just about any other piece of optical glass. It has become a "rite of passage" for M users. You buy it, shoot with it and after a while resell it to the next M-use who is convinced that it will make him/her a great shooter!!!! The price reflects this status - not the volume nor the quality of the image! I know of a couple of shooters who has done incredible stuff with noctiluxes - and i have also seen some of the worsts print ever done with by proud, new owners!
Around 6-7000 of them out there is a large "pool" and, in todays market. there will probably be a price adjustment. The "must have the latest" will splurge on the 0.95/50 and once that one is freely available, even more f1/50's will show up as used. If someone (Zeiss/Cosina) come up with a modern, computer designed, modern glass and coatings etc 50mm f1.1 of 1,2 - it would most likely outperform the original Noctilux and sell for less than 1/2 of what the used Nocti's go for today - and the users of high speed 50's would have an alternative - and that segment of the used Nocti market would be gone - and the collectors would by then be clamoring for the 0.95 anyway. Prices would drop substantially.
Will there be a Zeiss/VC "super speed lens" - I dont know, but I assume that it has been considered - but with sales probably lingering in the 2-400/year after the initial "rush" - it takes a long time to recoup investment.
The digital market also changes the need for this kind of lens - better sensors with cleaner high iso outputs would almost eliminate the need for it - and lenses like the 50f1.4 Asph, the ZM 50f1.5 or the Nokton 50f1.5 would be just as useful (and much smaller and probably optically superior too).
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Tom in your list of faster than f1.4 50mm lenses, you left out all the 50/1.2 lenses made for SLRs by Nikon, Canon, Olympus, and Minolta. How do these compare to the rangefinder high speed 50s? I've never used any of these lenses but the photos I've seen posted online look to me like most of the SLR lenses have similar image characteristics (Bokeh, etc) to the SLR 50/1.4 lenses, while the rangefinder ones like the Noctilux and the Canon .95 have a different look to the images.
 
The lens is designed for motion picture cameras which are 18x24mm frame size, not 24x36mm. The central part of those pictures is better than the edges, but bokeh is in the eyes of the beholder. I used to have a 100mm f/2 Angenieux, also a MP lens, custom mounted for Pentacon-six, which is a much bigger format than it was designed for, and it exhibited very similar bokeh. Unfortunately the lens was stolen, but while I had it I made a lot of money with it. I never had an art director say "Ewww, yucky bokeh!"
 
Well, let's see...the OP wonders if the recession will lower prices on the Noctilux?

As much as I love seeing images from those with the Nocti lens...a lower price induced by the recession is of no consequence to me. I would be happy to just to be able to have transportation again. Let alone buy the groceries. I guess what I am saying is, a $3,000 lens versus a $6,000 lens is not even a dream since, well, you know...

So, do I think the recession will lower prices? No...not really...I think an extravagance like a very expensive lens will sell to those who can afford it anyway. The higher prices will fluctuate depending on supply and demand but for the average unemployed low life like myself, we can only admire the images posted here! And that ain't bad! :D
 
People are losing their houses because they're worth less than what they owe the bank and people here think a silly lens is recession-proof? Wow.

Here's how it will pan out, I think: Denial. Denial, denial, denial. Following the denial comes Panic. Panic, panic, panic. After the panic come the bargains.

What speculation brings up, panic brings down.
 
If in the current climate a competitor comes out, it will surely make for some drops. The Noct allegedly has a unique signature and so I am of the opinion that some would continue to strive for the Noct in the belief that its cult qualities would make their pics better. However, as happened with the CV Nocton 35 1.2, cheaper lenses can have a signature people are just as passionate about. If CV could produce a 50 1.0 or 1.1 with that sort of signature then the Noct would lose two of its major virtues (speed and stand alone signature). Personally, I think that if I cannot take the pic I want with a 1.4 Lux or 1.5 Nocton, there is something wrong with me...

I think it will drop, but not as much as people hope. It will always be a piece of history, rare and impart a certain look (and teh emergence of a CV f1.0 lens will still hve people preferring the Leica look even if the two are proven to be completely indistinguishable). Some Leica buyers are not serious users anyway (hence the plethora of BP M bodies (referred to as 'my user') supposedly bought 4 or 5 years ago that do not have a single scratch of rub on whatsoever. There are enough to prevent Noct prices plummeting regardless of what happens. Look at it this way, despite the (according to many) BEAUTIFUL wide open bokeh of the new 35 summarit, the V4 is priced in line with unicorn horn... and the V2 and V3 are routinely offered for about the same as the Summarit with the 15% discount deducted. Its hilarious. If something is not 'hard to get hold of' some think it cannot be as 'good' as something that you have to do ebay single combat to get. I have seen loads of shots that tell me the summarit is (IMO) the new Bokeh King (and FAR better built) yet people are paying more for ropey 25 year old V4s by a mile. (I think the summarit looks better at 2.5 than the cron at f2!) I suspect such factors will keep the Noctilux from falling too far.
 
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