Wim Wenders: Phones Have Made Photography ‘More Dead Than Ever’

[PKR]

The specific tricks you mentioned just wouldn't work. Lipstick would mar the strawberries, moving the pips and leaving greasy lumps, and while a hair-drier can be used to dry food, it ain't hot enough to crisp it. For the former it might be possible to use red dye in a perfume spray (though I'm not sure what it would do to the pips) and for the latter a hot-air paint stripper might work, though a blowtorch would almost certainly be better.

As I say, there is some fakery -- salt in beer gives a good head -- but I'd be deeply suspicious of a documentary which used the examples you gave.

Undercooking is normal (you just cook it some more for the hungry assistants afterwards) but one of my favourite memories was making Tequila Sunrises. It took five attempts to make a good one, and neither Frances nor I likes tequila, but one of our assistants did. She was quite happy by the end of the shoot.

The trick, incidentally, is to use a funnel. Start with it touching the bottom of the glass and raise it slowly as you add the grenadine syrup.

Cheers,

R.

Hi Roger;

The head on a glass of beer is caused by bubbles forming around dust particles in the glass. I'm sure you've seen pub workers dunking a glass in water just before pulling the tap ? This is done to clear the dust so a full pint is poured (some or no head). It's also why glasses are stored upside down. To control the head, small amounts of dust are placed at the top portion of the glass (air bulb w/dust), where the head is wanted. Champagne is much more difficult to control. Many takes at a short flash duration are usually required.

The shape of the glass is critical for some beers to foam appropriately. I know more about beer foam than I need to. I'm not a food photographer or much of a beer drinker. As an assistant, I poured a fair amount of beer. One favorite AD drank a lot of beer, as glasses were replaced for fresh pours.

I don't know where these folks get their highly uninformed info on food photography? We both have practical experience in this field and, you must wonder, as i do, where this stuff comes from.

And, we all got some wonderful lunches, made from the food that was photographed.

 

[David Hughes]

....One famous NYC food photographer was asked how he always got great food shots..
He replied, I never photograph ugly food.

True but selective; the young ladies I see on TV and the ones I see walking about in town come from two different planets. That doesn't mean they are not real but are they reality?

Anyway, if your ears burn in the next few weeks it will be because I'm comparing pictures on boxes and the food in the box... Oh! the trials of being fair and scientific.

BTW, I live in the UK; the Govt. is very fond of voluntary codes of conduct but not laws. We can't choke big business with red tape etc, etc...

Regards, David

 

[Bob Michaels]

...... Anyway, if your ears burn in the next few weeks it will be because I'm comparing pictures on boxes and the food in the box. ......

I have been comparing advertising photos of various fast food sandwiches here in the US with what we actually get served ever since my sort of wife commented about our huge sandwiches. I had to ask why she thought so since being Cuban thus not allowed to enter the US she had never eaten one. Her idea came from the commercials she sees on bootleg TV down there. I am still waiting to be served a sub at Subway like the one above from their ad.

 

[Larry Cloetta]

The trouble with Subway is that, as corporate policy, they act like they don’t even know how to duplicate the sandwiches in the photos. No matter what sandwich you request, they ask you what you want to be placed inside the bread. If you tell them you have no idea, since you are paying for the privilege to not be the chef, and just ask them to “just make it like the picture”, they will stand there till hell freezes over until you tell them what ingredients you want in the sandwich. I don’t even know why they display photos of various sandwiches, since no patron has likely ever been able to duplicate one outside of blind luck.

 

[David Hughes]

...I don't know where these folks get their highly uninformed info on food photography? ...

It's quite simple really. I look at the pictures on display and on the box and I look at the food.

But I am talking about a lot of different photographers and a lot of different foods. Not one studio; it would be nice if the photo's were all taken of food as it comes to the customer and not specially baked etc, etc. We'll have to start a poll...

Regards, David

 

[John Lawrence]

It's quite simple really. I look at the pictures on display and on the box and I look at the food.

But I am talking about a lot of different photographers and a lot of different foods. Not one studio; it would be nice if the photo's were all taken of food as it comes to the customer and not specially baked etc, etc. We'll have to start a poll...

Regards, David

None of the pizzas I order look anything like the pictures on the flyer - but they (usually) taste better!

John

 

[Bill Clark]

One famous NYC food photographer was asked how he always got great food shots..
He replied, I never photograph ugly food.

After a establishing rapport with each client that hired me, I would say, kidding, “if you don’t like the photographs I make today, you will in ten years!”

 

[PKR]

None of the pizzas I order look anything like the pictures on the flyer - but they (usually) taste better!

John

Hi John;

I'm sure that's the case. But, if you want your pizza to look like the one pictured, begin with duplicating the lighting used. As a "photographer" I'm sure you're aware of a possible difference?

I can only speak from my personal experience, the food I've seen photographed was (by law) exactly what was sold to customers. But, as you would expect in a burger photo, a crushed or imperfect bun won't be used. Packages of buns are searched for ones that look good. This stuff is pretty common. In the case of beer and wine (I was around for a lot) the contents were exactly as sold. But, a case might be searched for a label that has no Surface Scrapes or a bottle that had the cork removed with little damage, if the cork is in the photo. Cutting the cork skirt properly, without damage is important. It might take several bottles to get a good cut. You may find this kind of thing "cheating", i don't know. But, in my experience, it's what happens.

In photographing chicken for a large, locally famous brand, a big batch of cut chicken parts were delivered. The client suggested that if we ran out of a specific part, to just go to a local grocer and buy a pack of whatever was needed.

In California, state and federal (FDA) laws are strict. No one that i know fudges on any of this stuff. No one wants to end up in court.

In the case of Domino's, the pies often went from the cine set (all film, they spend the $) to a still set, where the pies were photographed on 8 x10 for package delivery / Ad shots. Then they were eaten by any of the crew who still had an appetite for pizza. I don't buy much pizza, but, i don't think the stuff delivered differs greatly from what we photographed. The ingredient boxes in our refrigerators were the same as delivered to the Domino's stores.

 

[valdas]

it would be nice if the photo's were all taken of food as it comes to the customer and not specially baked etc, etc.

Regards, David

Oh, but you can see a lot of "food as it comes" - check variuos FB photos, curtesy of the smartphone...

 

[PKR]

I have been comparing advertising photos of various fast food sandwiches here in the US with what we actually get served ever since my sort of wife commented about our huge sandwiches. I had to ask why she thought so since being Cuban thus not allowed to enter the US she had never eaten one. Her idea came from the commercials she sees on bootleg TV down there. I am still waiting to be served a sub at Subway like the one above from their ad.

Bob, in your attached photo, I'm guessing that, all the ingredients were placed so that the photo would depict the contents? Eating a sandwich that was made that way would be difficult. It looks like the inner stuff would fall out. If the sandwich was photographed as delivered to a customer, the viewer would have little idea as to the contents?

I do eat Subway stuff. Never did any work for them (I'm not a food photographer). The quality varies a bit from franchise to franchise but, I've never had a bad experience. Everything was always fresh. The variances were do to employee behavior.. The person making the sandwich.

 

[PKR]

True but selective; the young ladies I see on TV and the ones I see walking about in town come from two different planets. That doesn't mean they are not real but are they reality?

Anyway, if your ears burn in the next few weeks it will be because I'm comparing pictures on boxes and the food in the box... Oh! the trials of being fair and scientific.

BTW, I live in the UK; the Govt. is very fond of voluntary codes of conduct but not laws. We can't choke big business with red tape etc, etc...

Regards, David

David, I have no idea what goes on re food photos in the UK. I've had some experience with French products sold in the US. The French, in my experience, want their food represented accurately.

I can only suggest that, if you think the food you might purchase isn't as advertised, avoid it. I don't eat a lot of fast or packaged foods. I prefer simple home cooked stuff made with good ingredients. I learned this from working with many food stylists and chefs over the years.

And, i can only speak from what I've seen done in Northern California. It's really easy to buy high quality meat and produce locally. The only places better, that i know of, are in France and Italy.

 

[Roger Hicks]

There is no turning back ... Life goes on
One either whines or rejoices

Does it really matter today what You shoot with

With such an abundance of photos everywhere
it makes me now relish even more a 'Good Photo' when I find one

Dear Helen,

No. There is a third option.

Ignore.

Cheers,

R.

 

[Roger Hicks]

I don't know where you get your info, but I've never seen anything like the things you mention done for a photo. I worked as an assistant to Irving Penn's former studio manager, who shot a lot of food. I did things like sort corn flakes, looking for good ones .. No cracks or chips etc. But, nothing that was featured was phony. We used very expensive plastic ice cubes as, real ones melt and change quickly. But, no phony food.

There are strict laws (FDA) preventing this kind of thing. And frankly, good fresh food subjects photograph best.

One famous NYC food photographer was asked how he always got great food shots..
He replied, I never photograph ugly food.

Food is an exception, though. After we'd spent hours trying to find a pill that wouldn't look like the surface of the moon when photographed and reproduced in a poster, the client commissioned a plaster pill a foot across.

The wastage in food photography is impressive. For my book Mexican Cookery we bought 10 kg (22 lb) of beef. Well, it wasn't exactly wasted. At least 90% was eaten. And I've already told the story of the Tequila Sunrises.

Salt works with beer. Sure, it's undrinkable afterwards, but then, Coors is undrinkable beforehand.

But as you say, you need to have done it in order to begin to understand it.

Cheers,

R.

 

[David Hughes]

David, I have no idea what goes on re food photos in the UK. I've had some experience with French products sold in the US. The French, in my experience, want their food represented accurately.

I can only suggest that, if you think the food you might purchase isn't as advertised, avoid it. I don't eat a lot of fast or packaged foods. I prefer simple home cooked stuff made with good ingredients. I learned this from working with many food stylists and chefs over the years.

And, i can only speak from what I've seen done in Northern California. It's really easy to buy high quality meat and produce locally. The only places better, that i know of, are in France and Italy.

Hi,


My mental yardstick for a lot of food is based on experience in France when visiting friends and relatives or even at festivals (not often though). Others bring home cheap and nasty wine I bring home cheese and regional specialities in tins. And I stock up again when they visit us. We also have several chefs in the family and friends circle & a vineyard owner and my expectations are probably the same as yours; plus I hear the occasional (entertaining) rant from them about food quality in the UK...

In the UK I think so called austerity has meant that standards have dropped to keep prices stable and things that would have been rejected not so long ago get sold. I can think of several shops where I could shut my eyes when picking something and be pleased but these days I look carefully and sometimes give up. And a lot of the better quality and dearer stuff has disappeared from the shops.

Shopping these days involves a lot of different shops and a good deal more driving to get things that were once available locally.


Regards, David

 

[teddy]

Wenders is right, and I want him to be right. Phone photography is 0.001 photography, the rest is Casual Image Taking or what ever. Photography is not just clicking a button or a screen, there should be a far more involved creative process.

 

[PKR]

Wenders is right, and I want him to be right. Phone photography is 0.001 photography, the rest is Casual Image Taking or what ever. Photography is not just clicking a button or a screen, there should be a far more involved creative process.

I'm afraid we're in the minority on this topic Teddy. The photo world has changed. It has been dumbed down like many other things.

The local photo art students claim my photo archives belong to them as well as me. I'm thinking of inviting the group of the most radical over to the studio, to watch me set fire to a bunch of old chromes and negatives.

pkr

 

[CMur12]

The way I see it, the phone camera is the modern equivalent of the old Kodak Brownie camera. It's the latest snapshot camera, used much the same way as the old Kodaks of yore. This casual approach to photography, primarily for personal documentation, has always paralleled serious photography.


- Murray

 

[DominikDUK]

Wenders is right, and I want him to be right. Phone photography is 0.001 photography, the rest is Casual Image Taking or what ever. Photography is not just clicking a button or a screen, there should be a far more involved creative process.

Actually you are wrong a snapshot is just as much photography as a Photograph made in a Studio Setting with dozens of assistants. In fact since the vast majority of photographs are snapshots, they are actually what is considered photography today. A small minority thinks otherwise but even Museum curators have discovered the snapshot as an art form.

 

[David Hughes]

Photography is photography in the same way that driving a car is driving a car; either going on holiday, going to work or doing some shopping.

I mostly use my camera as a notebook and that's more real than some artificial set-up that only exists in a studio.

It's like I said about girls on TV in post 122 (scroll up a bit).

Regards, David

 

[robert blu]

Wenders is right, and I want him to be right. Phone photography is 0.001 photography, the rest is Casual Image Taking or what ever. Photography is not just clicking a button or a screen, there should be a far more involved creative process.

Personally I fully agree with you.
Of course, being in a free world when the majority thinks and acts differently they can do it.

Again, it's not the tool, we have seen many good works made with Holga (David Burnett here) , Diana (IOWA by Nancy Rexroth) and smartphones.

It's the way the tool is used. Times snapshots had a cost to see them you need at least to develop the film and print them. Therefore a minimum of thinking before taking the shot was normal, is it worthwhile to take this? Maybe it's not art but good for the family album.

Now apart the cost of the smartphone apparently there are no cost involved, you can share without a computer...and this bring a proliferation of images.

I feel ambivalent with this democratization of photography, of course it's good everyone can take a photo, make a snap for its family album, record a moment of a journey or of a party. This is the good side. And most of these photos have a meaning. At least for the ones involved, friends and relatives.

What gives me difficulties is to see people just pushing the button, publishing on a social and proclaiming to be a photographer. And this happens not only among smartphone users...

Anyway Helen and Roger are correct, we cannot stop the trend but we can learn to live with it. And trying to make better photo to differentiate.

Just my thinking...

robert