Winding & Street Photography

[mike goldberg]

What follows is not etched in stone... It is an open ended question.
For sure, many thousands of memorable images have been made with
1950's genre FSU cameras and Leicas, as well as with earlier models.
One of the greatest advances in camera development has been the
thumb wind.

A recently arrived Fed-2 from the late 50's, is becoming a favorite shooter.
My Leica M2 and Bessa R are also favorites. I have looked at the camera
collections of our own Spyderman, HuubL and GeneW [Harbourlight]…
in flickr. I know of the investment in early and later Leica gear, made by
FrankS and Keith.

What I’m getting at is ergonomics. I can
keep an RF camera at eye level, or very close to it, with a thumb wind.
The Fed-2, Zorki-4 and Kiev 4a, for example, must be lowered and
tilted back to some degree… for film advance/shutter cocking, no matter
how soft and smooth the winding knob is.

Thus, in practical use, I would like to hear from other users:
How do your thumb wind RF’s compare to knob winders, in street work?
Let’s hear…

Ciao, mike

 

[ErnestoJL]

Taking the camera out of my face (as I should do when shooting the Contax or Kiev) allows me to see other elements that I may let come in or see another composition for the same subject.

The wind lever is just a convenience, at least for me. I got used to the knob wind back in 1982 when I bought the Kiev, and for many years it was the only camera I carried everyday. Worst is that both Kiev and Contax requires a little gymnastics to change shutter speed.

In both types of cameras (knob or lever) I check speed and aperture before shooting so it makes little or no difference for me.

Cheers

Ernesto

 

[mike goldberg]

This is a good thought, Ernesto. One of the great things about
RF work, is the ability to slow down and look around.
mike

 

[maddoc]

I have never used a camera with knob winder but the thumb winder is very useful to "hook" the thumb between camera body and the advance lever, gives some more stability ... to advance the film I always lower the camera because the lever would collide with my eye glasses

 

[Xmas]

Double dark slides are slower and a knob was faster, - for the second shot.

The Barback Leicias (knobs) are easier to wind even than my best Zorki 1s. A leicavit is still faster but tends to introduce more shake.

My Zorki 5 (lever) makes tractor noises and is slow, - compared with an M.
An OM1 (SLR) with winder attachment is still quiet but even faster, - for the second shot.

It depends in the style of your street shooting, I'd only take a leica M (or OM1) to a wedding. When I know I wont be able to anticipate what might happen and I'd want each event on Ag with a high probablity.

Noel

 

[alternatve]

I don't see it as a problem as I have to look up to change the aperature and shutter speed. I also use a manual lightmeter chart, as slow as it may be, it teaches me a lot. The trouble comes when I'm lazy to read it or forget that I don't have AE on my FED 1 and accidently press the button.

 

[dazedgonebye]

I'm with Alternative here.
No AE of course with no meter. I'm often using an external viewfinder as well. That's just a slow shooting camera and not suitable for use if you want to keep it to your eye and keep shooting.
When I have the time and the situation allows for that kind of deliberation, it's fun to shoot. Otherwise, I've got the R3A.

 

[payasam]

My Zorki 1C, I just checked, can easily be wound on with only friction against the side of the right forefinger. It was sold to me by Oleg K., but I do not think that would make it an exception (he hasn't so far paid me for publicity and all that, though I live in hope).

 

[aad]

Knob winding is the norm for me, and I don't find lever-wind offers any advantage. I can knob-wind just as fast.

 

[Jerevan]

Even if I don't have an FSU knobwinder, it's all the same with an old Leica. After I have made a photo, I always wind on, so 99 times out of 100 (barring the time I miss winding on!) I just need to focus and press the button. I adapt to this by using steady anticipation rather than viper-like reaction, as one would with AE and a motordrive on say, an SLR. I "see" the photo and take in scenes in a different way using rangefinders. At least it feels like that.

 

[mike goldberg]

Good comments above...
I really like Jerevan's post; 99 times out of 100, he winds on and is ready.

Knob winding for me is a new reality. Let's remember, when I was a
working PJ, I rammed the thumb wind of my M2 "home," 10,000 times
and more. The 1965 Leica is built like the proverbial brick s***house!
I must say, though, the Fed-2b has a very solid feel, moderately smooth winding
and a definite "thwack," when the shutter is fired, especially at
the higher speeds.

Gerald Epstein, MD, a New York Psychiatrist who teaches Healing
via visualizations, says it takes 21 days to just begin to learn a
new habit [like knob winding]. Further, I've got the small,
metal Voigtlander 75/50 viewer atop the Fed-2, and it makes
using the camera even more enjoyable.

Cheers, mike

 

[FrankS]

One of the imporant/significant differences between using a RF and as slr, is that the viewfinder of an slr is somewhat mesmerizing. With an slr I find myself with the camera to my eye a great deal, using the camera to look around for a photo. Then before the shutter is tripped, there is the focus to be done and the exposure to be tweaked. With a RF, I do WAY more looking and composing WITHOUT the camera to my eye, raising the camera (usually pre-focussed and exp. set) only briefly to take the picture. Lowering the camera to wind the film via lever or knob is natural.
(Now all this completely depends on the type of shooting being done. If there are no people in your shots, you could be standing on your head, it just doesn't matter. Or if you are taking pictures of rapidly changing situation, then a motordrive would be useful.)
But for street photography, the discrete RF technique is usually the best for me, and whether it be lever or knob wind, it doesn't matter, because the camera is only to your eye briefly for an exposure to be made, then dropped away. This is how it works for me. At a family funeral recently, the knob wind Contax IIa was perfect in this regard.

This post could also be in the recent "why RF vs. slr" thread.

 

[ruben]

All my story about softening the Kiev winding knob, was and is directed to be able to wind the knob at eye level. Lowering the camera enables more hand leverage and less effort to wind. Being able to wind your knob at eye level demmands a highly softened mechanism.

Paradoxically, while doing this job at home, at the street I never encountered a situation in which I had to wind at eye level. Therefore I agree with Noel when he says above "It depends on the style of your street shooting". For me, most of the times it is a single presseted shot. A single chance.

Street shooting has taken me to pre set. Presseting has taken me to develope my own estimations of light, distance and framing without viewfinder (kindly pay attention that I am NOT saying I already control all these)

Part of my technical style for street shooting is to carry the camera strapped short from my neck at chest level, making it quite prominent, or in more psycological terms, assertive. My name is Inigo Montoya... (it also helps my self too, to gather boldness). This I learnt from a master photographer called Esayas Baitel.

Something parallel is happening with the contents of my shots, which seem to take place very much in contrast of what I intend, as if the camera had a stronger soul than mine.

But standing at buses carrying the camera at chest level enables extremely conspicuous shooting possible, by distance estimation. There you need a soft winding knob for conspicuos winding. And this so far is the only situation in which i may do multiple shots of the same living subject.


Cheers,
Ruben

 

[Xmas]

Ruben

Don't you have a winder for your OM?

Noel

 

[ruben]

Ruben

Don't you have a winder for your OM?

Noel

Hellow, hellow, Zebra station calling, Hellow.... Weren't we talking about knob winding rangefinders ?

Cheers,
Ruben

 

[nasmformyzombie]

I wouldn't even think of using my Fed-2 for street photos. Ergonomically, there are simply too many faster alternatives.

 

[c.poulton]

SInce I shoot with my left eye, regardless of winder type, I have to lower the camera to wind on. It has never been a problem for me, and I also always wind on straight away so I am ready for the next shot.

Rather strangely I prefer the knob winder on my Leica IIIf's over my Bessa - it just feels more natural to me. Oh, and with my Leica's I tend to wind on with my left hand. (Not because I am left handed but because I shoot with a wrist strap on my right hand)

 

[ruben]

I wouldn't even think of using my Fed-2 for street photos. Ergonomically, there are simply too many faster alternatives.

"It depends in the style of your street shooting", correctly said above our friend Noel.

A very quiet Fed-2, diopter corrected, no AF lag, black painted, with the random support of a small digital meter, would be hard to beat at the streets...

You can put against it an Hexar AF. But what if the 35mm focal lenght is not to my taste ? then you will have to throw into the race a system Hexar. Not bad for a contender ten or twenty times more expensive.


Cheers,
Ruben

PS
10 times if your Fed is supported by a digital meter, 20 times it is not.

 

[nasmformyzombie]

"It depends in the style of your street shooting", correctly said above our friend Noel.

A very quiet Fed-2, diopter corrected, no AF lag, black painted, with the random support of a small digital meter, would be hard to beat at the streets...

Cheers,
Ruben

PS
10 times if your Fed is supported by a digital meter, 20 times it is not.

I have a black Fed 2, diopter corrected and would not think of using it for quick shots. The wind is too slow for me---even if I were to send it to Oleg for "silencing" which I am considering.

 

[mike goldberg]

Good morning all,
I fell asleep while films were washing 🙄

I like FrankS' & Ruben's comments above re: Pre-set. In other words,
the camera is at ready with shutter speed & aperture, more or less set.
With the camera cocked, for some, it will not make much of a difference
if the winding is by knob advance or thumb wind.

Further, Ruben's comment about boldness is very inviting. When you
board or alight from a Jerusalem bus with a camera hanging at chest
level, you are indeed, making a statement.

Am glad this Thread got a buzz.
mike