World Cup Champions: France or Italy?

[darkkavenger]

Marc-Antoine, you're asking me how my sicilian blood would accept this without reacting, well, I will tell you frankly, I would do exactly as he did. And he's not to be blamed for defending his family's honor, as I have stated in my previous comment, though there I'm being a bit harsh, because I don't see my mother or any other woman in our Mare Nostrum to claim for such a barbarian thing, as "asking for Materazzi's balls on a silver plate".

I'm by the way quite concerned that this news has been censored in our main newspapers (Le Monde, Le Figaro, Libération) and sport news websites. You surely know that every information in our societies is politized and exploited. As usual.

We've got lip readers and a mute soundtrack, and two football players, one saying the women of his family were insulted, the other saying that he just said "things that are said dozens of times between players".

Zidane was provoked, Zidane headbutted, Zidane got a red. Materazzi certainly got what he deserved on the spot, and might cope up with more in the face, which I hope if it is proved that he said such things.

I don't care if Zidane was born in the "Quartiers Nord" of Marseille. The "Quartiers Nord" of Nice are similar, so is the area of "Cannes-la-Bocca" in southeast of France where some of my cousins grew up in what could be considered like a "hot suburb" with fights, burning cars and other things such as these (and I speak of this happening 15 years ago, not last november).

That is no excuse... would it be an excuse if I took a gun and shot someone, and someone would say, "yes it's bad, but it's because he was born in Palermo" ? Sorry but there, the argument of coming from a difficult area makes no sense at all. But you are right when you point out that there have been much more dramatical things happening in the past.

If it would have happened at another stage of the competition, instead of a final, it wouldn't have such an impact. The italian was provocative and should've better go break his leg somewhere in the middle of the field instead of saying such bullshit. But this reminds me of a thing, you know those youngsters who throw things at the police or firemen, and then say "you can't put me in jail, i'm too young"... well that's similar... except that the policemen cannot beat them because they must obey to a law. And the football has some rules, too.

To end the thing on my side, France didn't win the cup, Italy did. Next appointment in 2010. Now if we're going to spend these next three months or four years in France doing "polémiques" about that, I better keep living abroad. Now I will try to go sleep in the heat of Prague, and tomorrow I will smile and enjoy Italy's fourth star, while preparing the logistics for the celebrations of our national holiday, the 14th of July at the embassy. And I'll be waiting impatiently for the "six nations cup" where I'll be supporting France like I've always been doing when it comes to rugby.

Max



P.S. : I do not intend to be insulting or provocative in this message, if it sounds like, let me know.

 

[fitzihardwurshd]

Zidane's reaction was way over, there's no excuse, no discussion. He's a irascible personality, that's all. You can get the football player out of the ghetto, but you can't get the ghetto out of the football player.
Didier

Ohhlala !!! Quelle merde !!! 😡 That's mean. The stink of the gutter, of which he can't get rid of, or what shall THIS mean ?

Actually Zidane is a man of honour, (your understanding of honour may differ) and he made a huge mistake. That makes him beeing un personnage tragique, and many people outside of Italy therefore feel comfort for him now tho the effect was desastrous, he spoiled the party.

Materazzi is just a mean little crook, who was clever enuff to get him started again on his no-no issue. That makes him to be the man who has left a blemish on the Italian victory.

That's the different between a real man and a greasy bedwetter, you see ?

And concerning your disgusting arrogant statement about the parvenue coming from the north of Marseille I'd best answer with a quote Oscar Wilde:

"We are ALL in the gutter, but some of use look up to the stars". Zidane does, Materazzi doesn't.

BTW why don't you send a petition to the FIFA, to leave all these sub-prolos from the ghettos out of the national teams in future ?, Football as a bourgeois concept, so to say ??

Fitzi

 

[RayPA]

...In Canada hockey players skate around with a lethal weapon in their hands...they could literally kill someone who slashed or insulted them. But they don't, and that's called professionalism.
...

Nice try, but a bad example, really. 🙂 🙂 I mean, come on. What's the old joke "I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out"? I've seen much, much worse behaviour at hockey games than what I saw Zidane do. It wasn't but 2-3 years ago that a felony charges were brought against a hockey player for almost killing someone on the ice.

I get your point about professionalism, but acceptance of fighting in hockey has got to be one of the most ridiculous "aspects" of any game I've ever witnessed. The referees stand around and watch the players beat the crap out of each other, often until they are bloody!

🙂

 

[dadsm3]

The fighting is allowed to prevent players from using their sticks on each other... A punch on the ice is not like it is on cement; you slide backwards when you swing....lesser of two evils. And have you ever changed the channel while they were going at it?
Bad example, yes, but you don't see many hockey superstars losing it and costing their team the Stanley Cup, do you? And if they did, would you hear the whining on this thread?
Yup, it's all Italy's fault....gimme a break. And Zidane saying he would do it again, while his mother wants testicles on a plate...pathetic.

 

[Nando]

Nice try, but a bad example, really. 🙂 🙂 I mean, come on. What's the old joke "I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out"? I've seen much, much worse behaviour at hockey games than what I saw Zidane do. It wasn't but 2-3 years ago that a felony charges were brought against a hockey player for almost killing someone on the ice.

I get your point about professionalism, but acceptance of fighting in hockey has got to be one of the most ridiculous "aspects" of any game I've ever witnessed. The referees stand around and watch the players beat the crap out of each other, often until they are bloody!

🙂

Many hockey people theorize that fighting in hockey actually serves to protect players. For example, if there is a serious exchange of insults between two players the 'honourable' thing to do is for both to drop their sticks and their gloves and duke it out. Going mano-a-mano in a fist fight to settle the score is better than having one of the players hit the other with the stick for example. The only players that will get hurt are the two idiots insulting each other and then fighting over it. Another reason to allow fighting is for the protection of the star players. Wayne Gretzky would have been a target for intentional injury but the fact that pure fighters like Dave Samenko and later Marty McSorley were on the ice at the same time as Gretzky intimidated the opposition from attacking Gretzky. No fighters were on the ice when Gretzky was hit from behind by US defensemen Gary Suter during the 1991 Canada Cup. Gretzky missed the rest of the tournament, missed much of the next season and had serious back problems for the remainder of his career. Luckily Canada still beat the US that year.

Frankly, this reasoning is backed mainly by people who enjoy fighting in hockey. I can see some benefits of fighting as a strange form of protection in some cases but it doesn't eliminate dangerous play in hockey. Marty McSorley hit Donald Brashear in the head with a stick and faced criminal charges much like Dino Ciccarelli did about a dozen years before after he hit Luke Richardson with a stick. Recently, Todd Bertuzzi punched Steve Moore from behind and then fell on top of him as he fell to the ice. He broke Steve Moore's neck in the process. All of these incidents occured when one player wanted to initiate a fight and the other refused, causing the first player to retaliate. I love hockey but I agree RayPA. Hockey is a really bad example.

The fact is that violence will occur in most sports and its not always the case of player vs player we have to consider either. What bothers me is that sports exist in their own little world and they have their own laws that differs from what regular people have to abide by. If a person with a dSLR insulted my Bessa-T and I head-butted them in the chest, I'd probably go to jail. A football player does it, and they get a red card and a suspension.

Materazzi is probably being treated unfairly. It could partially because he is Italian. Being Portuguese, I can relate to that suggestion somewhat as we have similar cultures and are treated similarly by others. I have seen and experience that type of thing happening. It could be that Zidane was such a great player that people do not want to have their image of him tarnished by this incident, which I think it the most reasonable explanation. Life just isn't fair. Materazzi just won the World Cup, scoring a goal in the final. He makes his living playing football; what many of us probably dreamed of when we were young. Makes lots of money, probably has a huge mansion, great cars, probably has a hot wife and could afford the most expensive Leicas many times over and money to spare for any lenses he wants. Its a pity now that Materazzi will be remembered by many as the guy who insulted Zidane causing him to react and get booted from the last and most important game of his career. All I have to say to Materazzi is life sucks!

 

[RayPA]

The fighting is allowed to prevent players from using their sticks on each other... A punch on the ice is not like it is on cement; you slide backwards when you swing....lesser of two evils. And have you ever changed the channel while they were going at it?
Bad example, yes, but you don't see many hockey superstars losing it and costing their team the Stanley Cup, do you? And if they did, would you hear the whining on this thread?
Yup, it's all Italy's fault....gimme a break. And Zidane saying he would do it again, while his mother wants testicles on a plate...pathetic.

that's kind of ridiculous, I guess the guy that almost got killed, got the lesser of two evils, but..OK. No further comment. I'm not going OT.

I don't watch it at all, because of the fighting. It just gets tiresome. It is such a great game--when they play, especially live (I'm sure I don't have to convince you of that).

And aren't you whining about the whining? Probably best to unsubscribe from this thread and ignore it. I know I am.

 

[RayPA]

Many hockey people theorize that fighting in hockey actually serves to protect players. For example, if there is a serious exchange of insults between two players the 'honourable' thing to do is for both to drop their sticks and their gloves and duke it out. Going mano-a-mano in a fist fight to settle the score is better than having one of the players hit the other with the stick for example. The only players that will get hurt are the two idiots insulting each other and then fighting over it. Another reason to allow fighting is for the protection of the star players. Wayne Gretzky would have been a target for intentional injury but the fact that pure fighters like Dave Samenko and later Marty McSorley were on the ice at the same time as Gretzky intimidated the opposition from attacking Gretzky. No fighters were on the ice when Gretzky was hit from behind by US defensemen Gary Suter during the 1991 Canada Cup. Gretzky missed the rest of the tournament, missed much of the next season and had serious back problems for the remainder of his career. Luckily Canada still beat the US that year.

Frankly, this reasoning is backed mainly by people who enjoy fighting in hockey. I can see some benefits of fighting as a strange form of protection in some cases but it doesn't eliminate dangerous play in hockey. Marty McSorley hit Donald Brashear in the head with a stick and faced criminal charges much like Dino Ciccarelli did about a dozen years before after he hit Luke Richardson with a stick. Recently, Todd Bertuzzi punched Steve Moore from behind and then fell on top of him as he fell to the ice. He broke Steve Moore's neck in the process. All of these incidents occured when one player wanted to initiate a fight and the other refused, causing the first player to retaliate. I love hockey but I agree RayPA. Hockey is a really bad example.

The fact is that violence will occur in most sports and its not always the case of player vs player we have to consider either. What bothers me is that sports exist in their own little world and they have their own laws that differs from what regular people have to abide by. If a person with a dSLR insulted my Bessa-T and I head-butted them in the chest, I'd probably go to jail. A football player does it, and they get a red card and a suspension.

Materazzi is probably being treated unfairly. It could partially because he is Italian. Being Portuguese, I can relate to that suggestion somewhat as we have similar cultures and are treated similarly by others. I have seen and experience that type of thing happening. It could be that Zidane was such a great player that people do not want to have their image of him tarnished by this incident, which I think it the most reasonable explanation. Life just isn't fair. Materazzi just won the World Cup, scoring a goal in the final. He makes his living playing football; what many of us probably dreamed of when we were young. Makes lots of money, probably has a huge mansion, great cars, probably has a hot wife and could afford the most expensive Leicas many times over and money to spare for any lenses he wants. Its a pity now that Materazzi will be remembered by many as the guy who insulted Zidane causing him to react and get booted from the last and most important game of his career. All I have to say to Materazzi is life sucks!

Intelligent and insightful reasoning. Thank you. 🙂

🙂

 

[J. Borger]

What annoys me most is this corrupt FIFA preses called Blattler opening his big mouth again and talking about investigations and Zidane having to give the golden ball back. He shows no respect at all for a great player like Zidane .... the type of player i and millions of people watch soccer for.
(Although my heart beated for Italy last sunday🙂 )
OK what Zidane did was wrong, no matter what Materazzi said ...... he got the red card for it .... end of discussion . It's a man's game ..... incidents like this happen over and over again every weekend on soccerfields.... emotion of the game ... . nothing to get too excited about. THe whole discussion is out of proportions because it was Zidanes last game ..... come on he did not murder Materazzi or even injure him.

 

[fgianni]

You can get the football player out of the ghetto, but you can't get the ghetto out of the football player.

If you are referring to Zidane's social background, I have to say that this remark is highly insulting towards all people not brought up in the highest social circles.
This includes me as well as Zidane.

 

[akalai]

...And when Zidane's mother says that she wants "Materazzi's balls on a silver plate" I can't help but ask myself what the hell with her, if she can't be at least civilized and have enough pride as to shut up and savour the way her son has proved her his esteem and own pride, then she can return to live happily among her mountains...

.... aggh good to see that the World Cup's message of "Say NO to Racism" has had such an impact...

 

[fgianni]

while his mother wants testicles on a plate...pathetic.

I must admit that by bringing his family into the dispute the man is losing my respect fast!

 

[Didier]

Francesco

You have understand me wrongly. With "ghetto" I do mean the background of streetfighting, which is a very common issue in the banlieues of Marseille, Lyon Paris and other towns (and not only in France, of course). As student I have lived in the 20e arrondissement in Paris for half a year and I know what I talk about.

I have not brought it up in higher social classes, too, but I have learned not to bash people, neither in sports nor on the street. Read more about Zidane's biography and you will notice he was very violent during his junior times. His coaches forced him to clean the showers and toilets of the club because he lost self control often.

The original quote is from the american writer Norman Mailer - "You can get a boxer out of the ghetto but never the ghetto out of the boxer". He was much quoted after Mike Tyson ear-bite, and it came to my mind after Zidane's fauxpas. It was not my intention to insult others and I apologize if some felt so.

Didier

 

[fgianni]

.... aggh good to see that the World Cup's message of "Say NO to Racism" has had such an impact...

You have a point here however, with a remark like that about someone's testicles, one may end up wondering, irrespective of race, religion and social background, how civilized is the woman.

 

[Didier]

That's an argument!!! There has always been injustice in the world, that's not a reason to change the state of the world. Black people have always been despised, that's not a reason for them to ask for respect ...etc.

Marc

Your conclusion is just incorrect. I say insults happen on each football field if at the WC or in any amateur league, even in France. If you have ever watched (or better heard) a game from the first row, or even played with, you know what I mean. It's the same in many other team sports like hockey, rugby, handball. Players just do insult. It's a fact.

But comparing this to real injustice and racism is strongly exaggerated. And making a national political affair out of some bad words of a defender seems way off everything. Materazzi said "son-of-a...", Zidane lost his self control, Trezeguet missed his penalty. That's what happened. Some seem to have a problem to stomach that.

Didier

 

[jonasv]

I must admit that by bringing his family into the dispute the man is losing my respect fast!

'Bringing his family into the dispute'? What the....? Materazzi insults Zidane's mother and she responds...

So WHO brought Zidane's family into the dispute exactly?

Not sure why I'm trying to argue with an Italian with such bias, you could at least try to be somewhat more objective, couldn't you...

 

[darkkavenger]

You have a point here however, with a remark like that about someone's testicles, one may end up wondering, irrespective of race, religion and social background, how civilized is the woman.

Exactly my point, I don't think my comment was racist in any way. And I find the remark insinuating that I'm a racist so insulting that I'll simply ignore it and its author.


Speaking about racism, I've grown up in the "country of freedom" being told almost daily by kids and then teenargers that I'm a "dirty italian" ("sale rital", frenchies will understand). That stopped when I finished growing up and when it started getting dangerous because of my build for those who enjoyed saying this. However it pops up regularly, especially when my french co-workers and co-citizens cannot accept a sport defeat, that italians are a nation of traitors, liars and thieves.

ditto,
Max

./. final comment on the topic.

 

[akalai]

Max these are your words...

...I can't help but ask myself what the hell with her, if she can't be at least civilized and have enough pride as to shut up and savour the way her son has proved her his esteem and own pride, then she can return to live happily among her mountains...

... I guess you must have meant the Alps or the Pyrenees then???

 

[fgianni]

I think that how someone reacts under stressful conditions is one of the things that sets the men aside from the boys.

We all know from all his antics that Materazzi has a long way to go along the path to maturity.
Despite his age, with his rection, but much more by bringing his family into the dispute, Zidane put himself in the second category as well.

When I was playing footbal in high school (a long 25 years ago) I had to endure the "son of a b&*%" (or one of its variants) insult several times, I am not saying it is fair, I am saying it happens, Zidane must have heard it countless times, and Materazzi as well.

 

[fgianni]

'Bringing his family into the dispute'? What the....? Materazzi insults Zidane's mother and she responds...

So WHO brought Zidane's family into the dispute exactly?

Do you think tha tevery time someone gave me the "son of a b%^&" while I was playing football I went and told my mother: "that guy told me that you are such and such", what would be the point?

You may be the kind of guy to do it but I am not.

Whatever happened on the pitch I always considered it my problem, and left my family out of it.

Not sure why I'm trying to argue with an Italian with such bias, you could at least try to be somewhat more objective, couldn't you...

I am objective: if I as a 17 year old amateur, was able to leave my family out of it, Zidane, as a 34 year old professional, should be able to do it with even less effort.

"I hit him because he insulted my mum" is primary school playground stuff!

 

[fgianni]

Exactly my point, I don't think my comment was racist in any way. And I find the remark insinuating that I'm a racist so insulting that I'll simply ignore it and its author.

Massimiliano

I am sure your comment was not intended to be a racist remark, but if you read it carefully, there is room to interpret it as such. (Honi soit qui mal y pense, I know, but you know how the world works this days)