Marc-A.
I Shoot Film
Just a reflection: instead of talking about Zidane and his deed, we all are talking about ourself, who we are, what values we hold ...etc It's very interesting (I mean it).
Now, on what I read:
Didier, sorry that I have to be a bit 'teaching', but I think it will be helpful: there's a "meta-ethics" rule, first formulated by the great philosopher Hume, according to which you cannot derive an "ought" from an "is"; ie a norm from a fact.
So when you say "Players just do insult", you're right to add that it is just a fact; but from this fact you cannot deduce: "he shouldn't have reacted like that". Facts are facts, they don't express any values. That's what I tried to make obvious with provocative examples. Maybe "Players just do insult" and maybe it's wrong and other players shouldn't accept this fact.
On the Hockey part: I cannot believe one can give hockey players as a counter-example. I'm a big fan of hockey (not very popular over here), and I've played several years when I was younger. Pacific game? Are you kidding? Above all in the NHL! What a ridicoulous theory according to which "The fighting is allowed to prevent players from using their sticks on each other"
What about allowing football players head butt or break legs for the sake of their protection?!
Darkk: yes Italy won, nobody contests, and personally I don't. If there is a stupid lawyer who wants to make money by the means of a trial against the FIFA, not my fault, not the fault of French people. The people (my butcher, my keeper, my colleagues ...) I met just after the defeat, said all: "it's the game; maybe next time we'll do better". So just blame this stupid lawyer.
And finally about the reason of the criminal deed:
Francesco said: "I hit him because he insulted my mum" is primary school playground stuff!
Right, unfortunately well educated people do not behave in a different manner when they sit on the Senate (I can remember physical fight between italian deputies!) for less obvious reason. Unfortunately, in everyday life, people fight for no serious reason; please tell someone in the street: "you cunt" (not a serious insult I guess) and then tell me the reaction. There's no moral gap between the street and the pitch; there's no moral gap between men and football players. Now, it's forbidden to physically react on the pitch, and it should be forbidden to insult and provoke too.
What did Z is wrong - nobody can say it is right - but sometimes you have to do wrong things: that's what we call "tragedy" (just a strong example of what I call tragedy: killing civilians in a war is not right, sometimes it can't be avoided; see the Israeli movie by David Benchetrit "On tire et on pleure", "we shoot and cry").
Oups I didn't see I was writing so much .... sorry
Now, on what I read:
Didier said:
Didier, sorry that I have to be a bit 'teaching', but I think it will be helpful: there's a "meta-ethics" rule, first formulated by the great philosopher Hume, according to which you cannot derive an "ought" from an "is"; ie a norm from a fact.
So when you say "Players just do insult", you're right to add that it is just a fact; but from this fact you cannot deduce: "he shouldn't have reacted like that". Facts are facts, they don't express any values. That's what I tried to make obvious with provocative examples. Maybe "Players just do insult" and maybe it's wrong and other players shouldn't accept this fact.
On the Hockey part: I cannot believe one can give hockey players as a counter-example. I'm a big fan of hockey (not very popular over here), and I've played several years when I was younger. Pacific game? Are you kidding? Above all in the NHL! What a ridicoulous theory according to which "The fighting is allowed to prevent players from using their sticks on each other"
What about allowing football players head butt or break legs for the sake of their protection?!
Darkk: yes Italy won, nobody contests, and personally I don't. If there is a stupid lawyer who wants to make money by the means of a trial against the FIFA, not my fault, not the fault of French people. The people (my butcher, my keeper, my colleagues ...) I met just after the defeat, said all: "it's the game; maybe next time we'll do better". So just blame this stupid lawyer.
And finally about the reason of the criminal deed:
Francesco said: "I hit him because he insulted my mum" is primary school playground stuff!
Right, unfortunately well educated people do not behave in a different manner when they sit on the Senate (I can remember physical fight between italian deputies!) for less obvious reason. Unfortunately, in everyday life, people fight for no serious reason; please tell someone in the street: "you cunt" (not a serious insult I guess) and then tell me the reaction. There's no moral gap between the street and the pitch; there's no moral gap between men and football players. Now, it's forbidden to physically react on the pitch, and it should be forbidden to insult and provoke too.
What did Z is wrong - nobody can say it is right - but sometimes you have to do wrong things: that's what we call "tragedy" (just a strong example of what I call tragedy: killing civilians in a war is not right, sometimes it can't be avoided; see the Israeli movie by David Benchetrit "On tire et on pleure", "we shoot and cry").
Oups I didn't see I was writing so much .... sorry
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